[aclug-L] Re: Cool new fan site....hehe

["Jeffrey L. Hansen" <jlhansen@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

This one brings up an interesting point that keeps stunting my LINUX
growth.  The "RTFM" anthem, while nice for a good giggle among the
knowing, is frustrating beyond comprehension to the poor guy who asks the
"well documented" question.  I don't have the time to RTFM and was hoping
to maybe get the basics of the operating system from those who are more
blessed with time to dedicate to computers.  I get the stare from my wife
when I even check the email, so learning a new system at home is pretty
much out of the question.  I was hoping beyond hope that there wouldn't be
a caste system in ACLUG, but have run into it many times and I'm really
fairly much of a non-user now as a result.  The times I get online are
devoted to getting things done and not trying to make a quirky KPPP to run
or a buggy distribution of netscape to work.  Win98 has been much nicer to
me than LINUX has so I've pretty much retreated to it.  I can install that
system in my sleep and configure and troubleshoot it without any problems.
I'm self-taught and it wasn't too difficult.  LINUX has been
incomprehensible to me from the start.  I'm about to give Solaris a try
just to see if that's any better.
        I think the group is largely on track with its aim, but a newcomer
is pretty much out in the cold - at least I have been since I'm not a
socializer.  Good luck to the rest.

jeff


On Fri, 14 Apr 2000, Carl D Cravens wrote:

> On Fri, 14 Apr 2000, James G. wrote:
> 
> > This time is mainly unorganized and largely wasted in most resent past 
> > meetings. If
> > the time was better managed, it still wouldn't be enough time.
> 
> Maybe some nights need to be dedicated to just beginner Q&A.  Or maybe
> beginners with lots of questions should be paired up with a "mentor" that
> can focus on getting them up to speed on the basics. 
>  
> > This event mainly attracts WSU Computer Science students on a budget
> > (not the average Wichita resident who shops at CompUSA and buys a box
> > of Red Hat for $29).
> 
> Why does it attract the one crowd and not the other?  Maybe it's because
> the CompUSA crowd has never heard of the user's group.  The UG can't help
> people who don't come seeking it.  (Though there may be a need for
> promotion of the UG here.) 
>  
> > Yes... true. This is good. On a bad note though, a one time new
> > visitor will often feel disoriented and out of place and may not
> > return after just one visit.
> 
> Unfortunately, Unix/Linux system administration *isn't* a simple topic.  
> And even in a beginners-only group, you can't keep the discussion level at
> the absolute-beginner level on a constant basis.  A beginner is going to
> need to do some work on their own and not expect a LUG to teach them
> everything... most beginner's questions are covered quite well in any of
> the various books out there.  To the absolute beginner, I think the LUG's
> best help is to help them pick an appropriate book.  (A well-established
> and wealthy LUG would have a library they could check said book out of.)
> 
> Or maybe I should borrow something from the chess club.  When a new person
> comes into the chess club and has never played chess, you don't have
> someone lecture to the entire club the basics of play.  One person takes
> the time to teach the game.  Throughout your chess career, you play
> against people who are of an appropriate level.  The "mentor" thing again.  
> 
> The LUG should be sensitive to absolute beginners and near-beginners.  But
> I think if someone has been doing this for six months and is still a
> "beginner," the problem probably isn't with the LUG's ability to help
> beginners.  It's someone who's either too lazy to learn or just doesn't
> have the knack for it.  (And an OS *shouldn't* require a knack or serious
> learning to be really desktop-worthy.)  
> 
> > Yes, but is not always on a very simplistic level and not enough new users
> > recruited to take advantage of it.
> 
> Like I said... it's not a simple thing.  Contrary to other opinions, I
> don't think Linux is ready for the average CompUSA shopper to pick up and
> install for the fun of it.  It'll get there, but it isn't there yet. 
>  
> > One option that has been in the past ignored would be a separate night
> > for beginners. This would not take away in the least bit from the
> > existing Monday night crowd. It would be an extension of the group. In
> > fact, it would allow for membership to grow in the existing group. One
> > problem that has prevented this option to be executed has been the
> > fear of growth in the group (ironic as it may seem).
> 
> If there were space available, it might be better to split one night into
> two groups that stay in contact with each other.  One of these reasons is
> social... and when it comes down to it, all groups, be it chess clubs,
> church groups, or LUG's, depend on a social aspect to hold them together.  
> There will be the folks who just come to learn (or play chess, or study
> the Bible), but it's the people who are having a social need met that will
> keep the group alive.  Those who give presentations at LUG meetings aren't
> getting much back out of it except social satsifaction, and those are the
> key people in making the LUG work. 
> 
> So... the problem with doing this "two nights" thing is that it
> essentially creates two groups.  And the goal of one group is to teach
> people how to leave that group and join the other.  The "beginners" group
> is likely to fail as a social unit because of a constant flux in
> membership.  Or as members learn more, they'll continue to escalate the
> level of topics in that group until you have two intermediate-advanced
> groups and no beginner group.  
> 
> > I'm not at all against what ACLUG is currently doing. I'm against what it is
> > currently not doing.
> 
> But oddly, you have very little advice for what they could do that they
> aren't.  You counter nearly every point with a negative comment, but only
> have one piece of advice.  (And even there I didn't hear you volunteer to
> lead the beginner group.) 
>  
> --
> Carl D Cravens (raven@xxxxxxxxxxx)
> I'm not lost, I'm "locationally challenged".
> 
> 
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