[aclug-L] Re: Cool new fan site....hehe

[Carl D Cravens <raven@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

On Fri, 14 Apr 2000, James G. wrote:

> This time is mainly unorganized and largely wasted in most resent past 
> meetings. If
> the time was better managed, it still wouldn't be enough time.

Maybe some nights need to be dedicated to just beginner Q&A.  Or maybe
beginners with lots of questions should be paired up with a "mentor" that
can focus on getting them up to speed on the basics. 
 
> This event mainly attracts WSU Computer Science students on a budget
> (not the average Wichita resident who shops at CompUSA and buys a box
> of Red Hat for $29).

Why does it attract the one crowd and not the other?  Maybe it's because
the CompUSA crowd has never heard of the user's group.  The UG can't help
people who don't come seeking it.  (Though there may be a need for
promotion of the UG here.) 
 
> Yes... true. This is good. On a bad note though, a one time new
> visitor will often feel disoriented and out of place and may not
> return after just one visit.

Unfortunately, Unix/Linux system administration *isn't* a simple topic.  
And even in a beginners-only group, you can't keep the discussion level at
the absolute-beginner level on a constant basis.  A beginner is going to
need to do some work on their own and not expect a LUG to teach them
everything... most beginner's questions are covered quite well in any of
the various books out there.  To the absolute beginner, I think the LUG's
best help is to help them pick an appropriate book.  (A well-established
and wealthy LUG would have a library they could check said book out of.)

Or maybe I should borrow something from the chess club.  When a new person
comes into the chess club and has never played chess, you don't have
someone lecture to the entire club the basics of play.  One person takes
the time to teach the game.  Throughout your chess career, you play
against people who are of an appropriate level.  The "mentor" thing again.  

The LUG should be sensitive to absolute beginners and near-beginners.  But
I think if someone has been doing this for six months and is still a
"beginner," the problem probably isn't with the LUG's ability to help
beginners.  It's someone who's either too lazy to learn or just doesn't
have the knack for it.  (And an OS *shouldn't* require a knack or serious
learning to be really desktop-worthy.)  

> Yes, but is not always on a very simplistic level and not enough new users
> recruited to take advantage of it.

Like I said... it's not a simple thing.  Contrary to other opinions, I
don't think Linux is ready for the average CompUSA shopper to pick up and
install for the fun of it.  It'll get there, but it isn't there yet. 
 
> One option that has been in the past ignored would be a separate night
> for beginners. This would not take away in the least bit from the
> existing Monday night crowd. It would be an extension of the group. In
> fact, it would allow for membership to grow in the existing group. One
> problem that has prevented this option to be executed has been the
> fear of growth in the group (ironic as it may seem).

If there were space available, it might be better to split one night into
two groups that stay in contact with each other.  One of these reasons is
social... and when it comes down to it, all groups, be it chess clubs,
church groups, or LUG's, depend on a social aspect to hold them together.  
There will be the folks who just come to learn (or play chess, or study
the Bible), but it's the people who are having a social need met that will
keep the group alive.  Those who give presentations at LUG meetings aren't
getting much back out of it except social satsifaction, and those are the
key people in making the LUG work. 

So... the problem with doing this "two nights" thing is that it
essentially creates two groups.  And the goal of one group is to teach
people how to leave that group and join the other.  The "beginners" group
is likely to fail as a social unit because of a constant flux in
membership.  Or as members learn more, they'll continue to escalate the
level of topics in that group until you have two intermediate-advanced
groups and no beginner group.  

> I'm not at all against what ACLUG is currently doing. I'm against what it is
> currently not doing.

But oddly, you have very little advice for what they could do that they
aren't.  You counter nearly every point with a negative comment, but only
have one piece of advice.  (And even there I didn't hear you volunteer to
lead the beginner group.) 
 
--
Carl D Cravens (raven@xxxxxxxxxxx)
I'm not lost, I'm "locationally challenged".


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