[Freeciv] Re: How to solve ICS - increasing settlercost

["Per I. Mathisen" <per@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

On Thu, 15 Aug 2002, Thomas Strub wrote:
> > If we want to make buildings not irrelevant, we should make them better. I
> > have already suggested doubling science bonuses of all buildings and
> > doubling research cost. If this is not sufficient, this can be combined
> > with giving most units gold upkeep and doubling buildings' tax bonuses. If
> > _that_ is not sufficent, we can require that very advanced units like
> > tanks, mech inf etc are built in cities with adequate mass production
> > facilities (ie factory), that diplomats require Courthouse, or ...
> > something, you get the idea.
>
> You can't have one cityimprovement for all unittypes so there are
> allways good units which could be build without the building.

Quick suggestion that would pretty much kill ICS:

UNIT            REQUIRED BUILDING
"Settlers"      none
"Engineers"     none
"Warriors"      none
"Phalanx"       Barracks
"Archers"       Barracks
"Legion"        Barracks
"Pikemen"       Barracks
"Musketeers"    Barracks
"Fanatics"      Temple
"Partisan"      (shouldn't be possible to build)
"Alpine Troops" Barracks
"Riflemen"      Barracks
"Marines"       Port
"Paratroopers"  Airport
"Mech. Inf."    Factory
"Horsemen"      none
"Chariot"       none
"Knights"       Temple
"Dragoons"      Barracks
"Cavalry"       Barracks
"Armor"         Factory
"Catapult"      Barracks
"Cannon"        Barracks
"Artillery"     Barracks
"Howitzer"      Factory
"Fighter"       Factory
"Bomber"        Factory
"Helicopter"    Factory
"Stealth Fighter" Mfg Plant
"Stealth Bomber" Mfg Plant
"Trireme"       none
"Caravel"       Harbour
"Galleon"       Harbour
"Frigate"       Harbour
"Ironclad"      Harbour
"Destroyer"     Harbour
"Cruiser"       Factory
"AEGIS Cruiser" Mfg Plant
"Battleship"    Factory
"Submarine"     Factory
"Carrier"       Factory
"Transport"     Harbour
"Cruise Missile" Factory
"Nuclear"       Nuclear Plant
"Diplomat"      Courthouse
"Spy"           Courthouse
"Caravan"       Marketplace
"Freight"       Marketplace
"Explorer"      none

This is a very quick suggestion only, but note how you are going to have a
hard time defending your new ICS cities and that you cannot expand without
building in depth in your interior so that you can produce units capable
of defending your empire. Relax too much on your improvements building,
and you have no capability to produce military units to defend yourself.
No more "100% tax, 50 cities, I'm Mr Invincible".

> Its only 1 units where the cost is changed. The settlers. One small
> change.

Hardly small. You introduce a totally new mechanic not seen in any civ
game I've ever seen. That is not an argument against it, just an argument
against "small". To the contrary, it is complex and untested.

Though, a good thing to say about it is that it should work perfectly fine
with the AI, probably without any changes at all. So if anyone feel like
adding it as an option, I am not opposed. Just don't add it to the default
ruleset any time soon :)

> and idon't see how you will do something against the exponential
> growth with cheaper building. The game is fast. After your change it
> will be faster. So we have future tech B.C.?

No, the assumption is that the changes will not make the game faster.
Remember, I also wanted research cost also doubled to offset the bonus. If
this is not enough to offset the building bonus, then increase it more...
similar for tax, production or luxuries bonuses for buildings - if it
speeds up the game too much, then increase upkeep/unhappiness, which again
will drive players towards building improvements to pay for it all.

Yours
Per