[linux-help] Re: help installing programs

[Jeff Vian <jvian10@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

gLaNDix (Jesse Kaufman) wrote:
> On Saturday 17 August 2002 10:42 am, you wrote:
> 
> 
>>good Linux is, and how I should learn about Linux.  From what I have
>>expereince in the past 20 days is that Linux, and the poeple using it
>>perfer to keep the secret on how to use the program to them self.  I
> 
> 
> this is something i have never seen, heard, or experienced myself in the 
> 5 or 6 years i've been working with linux... i would guess atleast 90% 
> of all linux users are extatic to bring a new user to linux and are 
> more than willing to help out as long as the user wants help, is 
> willing to do some research on their own, and most importantly follows 
> directions.
> 
> 
>>getting is frustrated.  I have even offered my toll free number to
>>any one that could call, and explain a little about linux, and I got
>>no response.
> 

As has been stated, few have time to make a possible long term 
commitment to phone conversations. In fact, your provision of the phone 
number gave a very limited response time, and is not necessarily 
convenient to anyone who might be able to otherwise help.

However, from your comments here, what I suspect is that you are 
understanding only part of the process to install the application.

The link you provided was to the qmail source.
This requires several steps to successfully install, and then requires 
configuration as well.

1. the source must be unpacked
2. the source must be compiled and may require specific configuration 
steps prior to compile.
3. after compile it must be installed.
4. when launched it needs to be configured to work for your system/network.

Each of the above steps 1 - 3 when complete will return you to a prompt. 
They do not give the pretty windows that Microsoft apps so often do to 
make the user feel good and think they are really done with the install.
This is because in a *nix environment so many things can be different 
ranging from the distribution to the individual packages that have been 
installed, and in the Microsoft world, a proprietary operating system 
demands uniformity and a one-size-fits-all environment that is easy to 
make every app fit into for installation.

Launching a service daemon (#4 above) such as qmail also requires some 
understanding of linux and how services are configured and how to 
start/stop them. You need a basic understanding of the *nix world.

The earlier comments that suggested you start by attacking the steep 
learning curve with some books and research will dramatically help in 
getting you to the place you need to be. The qmail site has some 
documentation as does linuxdocs.org. RTFM is the type of research that 
has been suggested, then questions on specific points that need 
clarification will be welcomed.

As I understand it, you have basically been put into a position of 
sink-or-swim. -- Learn Linux or else.
If that is true, please do not take out your frustrations on all the 
helpfull members of this list, but instead approach it with a can-do 
attitude. Listen to the good information you have already been given and 
after trying some of the suggestions, come back with the results and ask 
more refined questions based on the progress to that point.

As yet I have not seen your response to the request for information on 
what you have done and the on screen responses to your attempts to do 
the install.
- If you provide the requested and VERY NECESSARY information, many of 
us will assist.
- On the other hand, if you rail at us for failing to help and do not 
provide the needed information you likely will very soon be ignored and 
will not achieve your goal.

> 
> you have to remember that for some of us on this list, this is just a 
> "respond when you have a free second" list at times...  ie: i'm 
> attending school this year while working and going through a custody 
> battle for my son....  i don't have time to give someone a call and 
> walk them through installation of a program, but i'm more than willing 
> to drop an e-mail to the list when i get a chance (be it 4pm or 4am)...
> 
> 
>>Is Linux some sort of secret program, that only a few
>>certain poeple hold the knoledge, and the others are left out?  I
> 
> 
> no, go to the bookstore... there are quite a few books out there...  
> also, sites such as linuxnewbie.org and linuxdocs.org have been more 
> than helpful...  and when people say RTFM, they aren't always kidding.. 
> you can learn a lot by actually reading the manual or instructions...
> 
> 
>>have come to the conculsion the reason Linux is not as Popular as
>>Microsoft Products is that no one is willing to help, and have
>>patients for some one who gets dumped into a new inviroment, tring to
>>meet deadlines, and is realizing that the more he ask the less he
>>understands.  To conculd, I would like to say thank you for what
>>little help I got, and appriciate the little help a few of you where
>>able to provide to me.
> 
> 
> so, after 2 days of emails, you decide this based on what?  many have 
> e-mailed, but have you followed any of the instructions/requests?  i 
> asked you what commands, output, etc you are seeing/using, but i 
> haven't gotten anything more than "i'm using rpm to install qmail."  
> well, are you doing it on the commandline ('rpm -Uvh <qmail-rpm>')?  
> are you using a gui client (ie: KDE or GNOME based installer)?  you say 
> it keeps going in loops...  what do you mean?  what is the _exact_ 
> output that you are seeing? (btw, if you're in a gui environment, you 
> can hilight the text in your xterm and then middle-click [or click both 
> mouse buttons if you don't have a middle mouse button] and it will 
> paste the selected text wherever you click)
> 
> basically, before i or anyone else can really help out, we need some 
> _real_ information...  when i ask what output you are seeing, i expect 
> to see a cut and paste version of what you are seeing on the 
> commandline there, not a general "i did this" type of response...  i 
> think i speak for most everyone on this list when i say we are more 
> than willing to help, but you have to help us help you by following 
> directions and giving the information requested...
> 
> good luck,
> gLaNDix
> 
> 
> 
>>Justin
>>866-327-6644
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Koji Hayakawa" <sylf@xxxxxxxxx>
>>To: <linux-help@xxxxxxxxx>
>>Sent: Saturday, August 17, 2002 3:00 AM
>>Subject: [linux-help] Re: help installing programs
>>
>>
>>>I would suggest you drop qmail for a while, then.  Go read more
>>>about
>>
>>Linux
>>
>>
>>>in general.  Go buy a book on Linux.  Buy any book like Linux for
>>>dummies
>>
>>or
>>
>>
>>>Beginning Linux or Teach Yourself Linux in 24 hours or whatever. 
>>>Just
>>
>>spend
>>
>>
>>>some time reading these books, and try what the book suggest you to
>>>try. The hands-on experience will teach you.  And if you don't
>>>understand
>>
>>what's
>>
>>
>>>going on in the book then come back to this mailing list and ask
>>
>>questions.
>>
>>
>>>Also, try finding documents in http://www.linug.org and
>>
>>http://www.tldp.org.
>>
>>
>>>I believe entry level Linux courses are waiste of money and time.
>>>
>>>Get comfortable how to get around the system.  Get used to command
>>>lines. Learn to read on-line manual pages (man command).  They will
>>>benefit you,
>>
>>if
>>
>>
>>>you want to learn Linux.
>>>
>>>***********************
>>>
>>>Back to couple lines of your reply....
>>>
>>>"Whatever RPM program came with Red Hat 7.3" won't tell us
>>>anything.  As
>>
>>far
>>
>>
>>>as I know, it loads the command line RPM program, Gnome version of
>>>RPM manager, and KDE's RPM manager.
>>>
>>>And FYI, "KDE Version of Linux" is not proper way to express a
>>>version of Linux.  KDE is what's so called "Desktop Environment." 
>>>It can run any version of Linux running X Windows.  It actually
>>>runs on any Unix or
>>
>>Linux.
>>
>>
>>>So in your case, you are using "Red Hat Linux 7.3, running KDE."
>>>
>>>***********************
>>>
>>>Not to be rude, but let me end the note with this quote from
>>>certain Linux User Group's Mailing List FAQ:
>>>
>>>Q: I want to post a question.
>>>A:  First of all, read this wonderful resource. How To Ask
>>>Questions The Smart Way
>>>(http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html). In
>>
>>short,
>>
>>
>>>if you're posting a question, try to do some research before you
>>>post it. Describe your environment. Define your problem and attach
>>>logs whenever possible so that it is easier for others to diagnose
>>>the problem.
>>
>>Otherwise
>>
>>
>>>expect to be told to RTFM.
>>>(http://www.tuxede.org/~esr/jargon/jargon.html#RTFM)
>>>
>>>(from http://www.tlug.jp/listpolicy.decorated.html)
>>>
>>>
>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>From: linux-help-bounce@xxxxxxxxx
>>>>[mailto:linux-help-bounce@xxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of The PC-Zone
>>>>Sent: Saturday, August 17, 2002 1:36 AM
>>>>To: linux-help@xxxxxxxxx
>>>>Subject: [linux-help] Re: help installing programs
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>The exact URL or the program I got is
>>>
>>http://www.qmail.org/rpms/var-qmail/
>>
>>
>>>>I am using what ever RPM program came with Red Hat 7.3
>>>>And my leval in Linux is approxamently 20 days
>>>>And I am using the KDE Version of Linux.
>>>>Do you know of any good Training Classes a person can take on
>>>>Linux? Justin
>>>
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>>
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-- 
Jeff Vian
jvian10@xxxxxxxxxxx

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