[Freeciv-Dev] Re: Cheating

[Rafal Bursig <bursig@xxxxxxxxx>]

Dnia 2003.04.25 15:19, Per I. Mathisen napisał(a):
> On Fri, 25 Apr 2003, Rafal Bursig wrote:
> > Primo: Some people may want have this functionality (see enemy unit
> > stack). Then this can be configure via server options.
>
> There is no point in allowing such configurability if the client 
> doesn't
> support it. Going to the effort of making the necessary GUI changes on
> all clients for this if it isn't going to be the default ( == nobody 
> will
> use it )... simply won't happen.
No this should be server options, let me explain ...
Client should show all units in stack that server send but what server 
send depend of this flag.
if you set server fag "show_enemy_stack" then server will send all info 
about tile units stack.
but if you don't set this flag server will send only info about one 
"see" unit;
> > I don't look in entire code here and I don't know if server send
> > diplomat/spy/sub units position to client (IMHO this will be wrong 
> if
> > client have info about they positions all the time).
>
> Stealth works. However, diplomats and spies don't have it.
IMHO this wrong diplomat/spy should have it, and even better we can 
make something like in AC that you can't see owner of this units.
> > We should have rule that "Your Ally's unit always protect your 
> enemy's
> > unit when your ally and your enemy are ally and have units on the
> > same tile".
>
> The current rule is that you can attack enemy units outside cities no
> matter whose units they are stacked with.
>
> If you change this rule, then you get the opposite problem: What if
> the first ( == only shown ) unit is an enemy unit, and there are 
> friendly
> units in the stack? The client won't know, and will mistakenly think
> the stack can be attacked.
No becouse server always should sent all stack info about ally units.
and only one info about enemy/neutral unit. In this way your client can 
show you info that on this tile are hostile/neutral units becouse 
client know about it.
but what happend current when you attack such stack ?
Do you destroy only enemy units ?

I think such "stack" construct should be used only for "sneak" attack 
on me and my ally want simple attack me with his ally ( and my enemy ).
> This problem also arises because of layering (or lack thereof). If
> there for example is an air unit in the stack which you cannot see, 
> and you
> try to attack with a ground unit, you will fail. The client has no 
> way of
> realizing why not.
one moment please...
we start speak about combat rules (which IMHO need some changes but 
this is other story)
but ... yes you have right sending first unit in stack is wrong, we 
must send first air unit( if exist ) or sea unit (if exit ) or land 
unit (if exist), But with this sequence air,sea,land and only one or we 
send best defender of all three type.
> These things may not be a big deal for human players, who presumably
> can be given informative messages by the server saying why he can't
> attack. However, this becomes a big deal with client AIs. They will 
> need some
> kind of report-back system that they can understand, and such a system
> would make it much harder to build a client-AI that maintains little 
> state
> information.
This will be next AI cheat, it will know what units are on know tiles.

> So I think showing the (non-transported, non-stealthed) contents of a
> stack is the way to go.
That all depend what do you like
I like Civ2 rules :)

Rafal

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