[Freeciv-Dev] Re: Alternative nation dialog

[Raahul Kumar <raahul_da_man@xxxxxxxxx>]

--- Mark Metson <markm@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> 
> On Thu, 28 Feb 2002, Raahul Kumar wrote:
> 
> > > Any nation that chose Warrior Code and Horse Riding early (first to get
> > > them possibly?) could do it. 
> > 
> > No, not quite. The concepts of horse riding, archery and warrior code were
> > known to the all the civs the mongols conquered. In Civ terms, all the civs
> > they defeated were at equal or higher tech level. Yes, you in the back, the
> > mongols
> > absorbed the tech of everyone they beat. They used chinese catapaults, arab
> > horses and camels etc.
> > 
> > It was the harsh environment of Mongolia that produced the mounted archer.
> It's
> > ludicrous to claim that the soft civilised nations could have produced
> great
> > warriors. Their tactics came about because conflict was brutal and often. 
> 
> Then the game situation to look for may be poor terrain - cities with very
> low food and production. Or, possibly better, figure a way to include
> Nomads. Some kind of movable pseudo-city with lowered values or something.
> 

Kind of cool. 

> > The romans brought discipline to the mix. There was no new tech in the
> legion.
> > Their fightming men one on one were possibly worse than their opponents. It
> was
> > their tactics as an army, and above all their discipline, which lead the
> Romans
> > to victory.
> 
> Yeah well the idea that tactics and leadership require modern tech has
> always been somewhat dubious. Like the ancients modpack says, the only
> thing new about Guerilla Warfare is the name. Didn't the Romans have
> conscription? For that matter who else had Legions? The Legion is tougher
> in Freeciv than in Civ1 and harder to get to, maybe the Romans simply got
> there first. Why others didnt also field Legions is a bit mysterious
> though unless maybe the Carthaginians or some other infamous enemy of Rome
> may have done so?
> 

It is strange that only Romans fielded legions. I don't know why.

> The lack of other viable development paths may be forcing too many players
> to go through the Legion step. Civ is far too Christianity-centric, I dont
> know why they heck Freeciv (presumably from Civ2 ?) threw in Polytheism as
> a useless tech that does nothing other than make it harder to get to
> Cathedrals. What about Druids and Bards, possibly they may have been part
> of why their cultures stuck with the individualistic Hero instead of
> adopting a Legionaire attitude. National Myths perhaps? There was
> something about Legions and Reiches that some European types disliked and
> still do. Possibly something of the same idealism of the individual that
> led to the United States national myth of "democracy" and "libertarianism"
> and such.
> 

New techs?

> > It's basically about strategy. Knowing that you are going to employ the
> Aztecs,
> > I have to counter your advantage until the chinese advantage comes into
> play.
> > And then it's your turn to suffer, and prove your strategy by outthinking
> me.
> 
> I have no idea what the Civ2 purported national advantages are other than
> the F15. Presumably the Aztecs or Mayans or Incas would have had no Wheel
> until very late? What they had instead though I don't know other than
> terrorising subject races by means of cannibalism.

Hey, the Mayans didn't go in for human sacrifice. I don't know either, but
they dominated an entire continent for centuries.

> > > The emulating of an existing game whether said game makes sense or not is
> > > a valid point, so "in Civ3 mode" do as Civ3 does, sure. That should not
> > > stop us taking "better" or "alternative" routes too though.
> > > 
> > 
> > Yes, you have not quite suggested exactly what you want.
> 
> One thing definite and specific would be a mode in which the "techlevel"
> value chooses techs based on the order of development specified in the
> nation rulesets instead of choosing them at random.
> 

Have a talk with Petr.
 


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