[Freeciv-Dev] Re: Alternative nation dialog

[Raahul Kumar <raahul_da_man@xxxxxxxxx>]

--- aliaga <aliaga@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Let me explain my motivations. As I said before, I want distinct civs like
in Civ 3. Each civ should have its own advantages, and that is simply not
compatible with 100 civs. Therefore, the list should be pruned.

I also find something deeply annoying about no
name civs competing with me for world domination. It doesn't bother me that
Japan, England or India are my rivals. Lithuania? Where the hell is it on the
map? 


> At 27-02-02 23:33 -0800, you wrote:
> 
> <snip some understandable reasons>
> 
> >The revised nations list I would like to see:
> >
> >Ancient Civs:
> >
> >Romans(Italians get removed. Romans were tough and well disciplined. The 
> >Italian
> >civilisation is basically a nobody civ in spite of the Renaissance).
> >Greeks(Ancient Greeks - not the moderns.)
> >Sumerians, Assyrian,Babylonian,Indian,Aztec, Mayan. Not sure which nation in
> >North America was overwhelmingly dominant. Probably the Mayans, no Sioux or
> >other tribes.
> >Japanese - very old civ. You could argue it was an offshoot off chinese, but
> >nonetheless pretty old.
> >Egyptian
> 
> Yet, the Phoenicians who basically discovered everyone else and put History 
> (with capital letters) in motion are too unimportant to get their fair 
> share of world domination... :-P
> 

Yes, I missed them. The thing is, no modern nation is descended from the
phoenicians. Including them will satisfy no one. Like I said the criteria
is

When people are asked about the civ, they know it's great accomplishments. Only
the celebrity civs.

Land Area - grab more than 20 % of the world's surface area or rule a
continent,
you are in regardless of any other criteria.

Phoenicians don't meet this. Neither does Spain or Portugal.

Science - Responsible for any great scientific advance. China for example, with
the outstanding examples of compass, gunpowder and paper, was the scientific
powerhouse. It would make the list for that reason alone. 

Spain or Portugal have contributed - what ? Phoenicians came up with an
alphabet
that was independently discovered elsewhere in the world. They're probably not
even the first to the alphabet. The Indus civ(Indian) was possibly the first to
phonetic writing. Regardless, writing was discovered independently and often.

Sheer impact on the world - any civ that has left a lasting impact centuries
later. Spain and Portugal would struggle to make that list. The Mongols are a
standout as an otherwise crap civ, but they changed the world.


> And what about those forgettable Carthaginians who were the worst enemy of 
> the Romans? Ever wonder whose idea was to have War Elephants?    ;-)

Indians, ;-). African elephants cannot be tamed. All war elephants are
asian elephants. Indians were also the first with the battlefield use of
rockets
and rhinos. Chinese were of course first with the use of rockets as fireworks.
Oddly enough, Indians also used cheetahs and tigers and lions in warfare as
well. Kind of cool but useless fact.

I don't know anything about Carthaginia. Beyond Hannibal and the Alps, the 
average Freeciver will say, who? Goddamn Romans trashed all the historic
evidence. Any Civ that was totally wiped out of history could not have been all
that great. Survival is the first test of greatness.


> 
> 
> >Medieavael
> >
> >The vikings, the Arab nations, Syria, Egypt, Persia. France. Egypt, Britain.
> >Austria Hungary, Turkey, Germany. Oddly enough Sweden. Their king was
> >apparently the basis of modern military tactics in the gunpowerder era.
> 
> But apparently such "unknown" nation as SPAIN did not influence world's 
> history (particularly american and european) during enough centuries to be 
> taken into account!   :-(
> 

Spain was important. Add them to the list. Nonetheless, I cannot name the
spanish contributions to civilisation. What did the spanish add scientifically?

> Or even the Portuguese "bystanders" who only got small things like BRAZIL 
> and colonies all over the Pacific to show that not only the northern 
> peoples knew how to navigate.   :-?

Not portugal. Their time in the sun was too short. 

> All of which only goes to show why there are so many nations to choose 
> from, because it is too hard to come with a list of the "best" of them, by 
> any sensible account.
> 
> My .02E
> 


Rockets and rhinos - The Indian civilisation.

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