[Freeciv-Dev] Re: (PR#7287) Extended Topologies

["rwetmore@xxxxxxxxxxxx" <rwetmore@xxxxxxxxxxxx>]

<URL: http://rt.freeciv.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=7287 >

Jason has always had a hard time with Mobius strips and Klein bottles
:-).

A mobius E-W or N-S wrap is functionally no different than a wrap
to form a standard cylinder surface of twice the circumference.
Since game players experience only the 2-D surface, they cannot
see any of the 3-D features that leave some developers starry eyed.

Thus there is no justification for a Mobius topology of this form.

In the same vein, a double Mobius wrap is equivalent to a torus
which is topologically about as close to a 2-D representation of a
spherical surface as you are likely to get from the 2-D perspective.
Again the user does not see the 3-D features, so there is no value
to having a Mobius toroid.


A shift or a shift and wrap operation are necessary to go over
the edge of a Mobius strip and connect to the other side. But
this is a much more complex thing than just a wrap and probably
should not be considered as a wrapping subtype. It is operations
like this that introduce singularities and other ways of breaking
the adjacency relationships that then are going to cause fallout
in the form of new ways of drawing the GUI displays.

Until these factors are properly worked out, one should only
deal with operations which do not introduce such singularities
rather than just any old fold and stitch possibility, and code
just those cases for possible inclusion.

When the GUI display and adjacency issues are worked out, then some
of the other more exotic topologies might be worth considering.


But in all cases, one should ask what the (added) value is to the
user and not to the developer that is intrigued with higher math
problems rather than game play.

In the latter vein, if you are discussing reverse and reverse-reverse
or other weird things that an intelligent 11 year old user would
have difficulty following, then you are probably not talking about
a useful game topology.


Cheers,
RossW
=====


Marcelo Burda wrote:
> <URL: http://rt.freeciv.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=7287 >
> 
> Le ven 20/02/2004 à 00:35, Jason Short a écrit :
> 
>><URL: http://rt.freeciv.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=7287 >
>>
>>Marcelo Burda wrote:
>>
>>><URL: http://rt.freeciv.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=7287 >
>>>
>>>Le jeu 19/02/2004 à 22:48, Jason Short a écrit :
>>>
>>>><URL: http://rt.freeciv.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=7287 >
>>>
>>You misunderstand what a mobius wrap is.
[...]
> i propose to make a id for all topological(math) different topologies:
> 
> 0)Flat
> 
> 1)classic( = ratated90(uranus))
> 
> 2)quincuntial_SQ ( ratated45(simplest-reversed = rotated90
> (reversed-simplest)
> 
> 3)Torus
> 
> 4)Mobius (rotated90(Mobius_V))
> 
> 5)spin (rotated90(spin_V= none))
> 
> total of 6
[...]
>>jason