[Freeciv-Dev] Re: Alternative nation dialog

[aliaga <aliaga@xxxxxxxxxxxx>]

At 28-02-02 20:46 -0800, you wrote:
> Ah hah. A Guns, Germs and Steel reader. Geographical determinism at its worst.
> No, not quite true. North America is a case in point. The Sioux and the other
> tribes could have taken up farming, it was rich farmland. They instead chose
> the nomadic lifestyle.
Too big a country to develop unified kingdoms without help of horses. What 
if they had been given more time?
Also, farming comes from population pressure, so in really big and rich and 
unpopulated spaces, why bother?

> True. Incidentally, I play on the world map. It's just more emotionally
> satisfying to conquer the earth than some random islands.
Hehe, me too.


> No. In the real world map, they get the correct starting points. It sucks
> to be japanese though.
Tried that once. Scary. Only got through by "cheating": populating Australy 
then SouthAmerica.

> Who are the Dunadun?
The Dunedain, from Tolkien, the Silmarillion version, not the expatriates 
from LoTR. Talk about the wrong leaders...

> You're going to argue realism ;). Like I said before, any game that allows you
> direct control over your empire, a satellite overhead view long before your
> civ achieves the wheel and immortality already has problems with realism. I'm
> not even going to touch the issue of being able to research tech you do not
> even know exists.
Agree, though would be nice if some wise coder could overcome that...


> Quite a lot. Military and scientific knowledge, control of huge chunks of the
> planets surface, defeating and being acknowledged as great powers by all other
> nations. It's quite an easy list.
Agreed, but still opinion matters.


> If your nation has survived to the present day - you make the list
>
> India
> Japan
> China
> Egypt
> Rome
> Persia
> Greece/Macedonia
> England
Ahem, and many others :-)


> Current powers list is based on
>
> 1) Posession of Weapons of Mass Destruction or the ability to easily and
> quickly build them
> 2.) A space program and a ballistic missile capable of reaching the US
> (If NMD is built, then enough missiles to get past them)
> 3.) Prominence in technology
> 4.) Land Area
> 5.) Control of important world resources
> 6.) Economics
Definition of (1) has varied wildly in the last centuries.
(2) is a subset of (1)
(3) is their prerequisite, unless magic is allowed :-) also wildly changing
(4) is the true invariant throughout the ages, but the ratio power/land is not.
(5) has changed very much too
(6) only now beginning to be a science. Strongly dependent on (3)

So you can top the list by excelling those who already are there or by 
CHANGING the list itself. It's been done before.
<snip futures talk>

> I do reserve the right that if certain technologies are developed to junk 
> these
> predictions. After nanotech, ball gazing is worthless. This is the only
> technology that could make any civ on this planet undisputed ruler.
Speaking of remaking the list from scratch, agreed. What if today's 
economic powers get smashed by unimaginable catastrophes ushered by 
unleashed nanotech experimenters? Tibetan Monks could inherit the Earth. 
Their list would be amazing to read, then :-)
My 0.02E