[Freeciv-Dev] Re: (PR#7021) fighting ICS (was: allies give all their techs for nothing)

["Brandon J. Van Every" <vanevery@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

<URL: http://rt.freeciv.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=7021 >

From: Arnstein Lindgard [mailto:a-l@xxxxxxx]
> On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 13:47:23 -0800 Brandon J. Van Every wrote:
> >
> > So, how about a city has to be a certain size if you want to build a
> > certain kind of unit?
> 
> I'll remind you of something that always was fundamental to Civ.
> The relationship between city size and pop:
> 
> Size    Population
>   1       10,000
>   2       30,000
>   3       60,000
>   4      100,000
> 
> etcetera, i.e. it never was linear.

Ok, but then it's totally irrational to allow settlers of size 10K to increase 
the population of cities from 10K to 30K, 30K to 60K, etc.  Also it is equally 
irrational to reduce a city from 100K to 60K and only get 10K worth of settlers 
from the deal.  So I think you have to acknowledge that the rules are linear 
*in practice*, regardless of what they're supposed to represent in theory.  
After all, the resource basis of a city is clearly linear, it's the number of 
tiles a city has under production.  Support rules of "one shield per unit" are 
linear.  It's only city improvements that make productivity in any way 
nonlinear.

HEY here's a radical idea: get rid of the exponentially increasing population 
delay!  People pull all the Smallpox tricks in order to avoid the delay.  No 
delay, no Smallpox tricks.  People will happily jump up to size 8, then be 
forced to build an aqueduct.

> I've seen definitions of an "infantry division" ranging from 10,000
> to 30,000 armed men. When you look at historical battles and compare
> the number of actual men involved, and look at how many "divisions" a
> real nation can support, it's not unreasonable to say that a Freeciv
> "Rifleman" is one division. Incidentially, one Settler will give you
> 10,000 pop to boot.

Ok, to make a Rifleman division, you have to empty out 20K men.  And, unless 
your culture is rather modern, that's 20K *men*.  It should affect your 
fertility rates, although not as bad as you might think because 1 man can 
service a lot of women if need be.  :-)

Now of course we're in the territory where you depart from Sid Meier and Brian 
Reynolds.  Enjoy your bold frontier!  I'm working on my own title, Ocean Mars, 
so this kind of angst is not my problem.

> It's not at all unreasonable to simplify reality and declare that a
> size 1 city cannot support one Musketeer, if you need that tool for
> balancing purposes.

On that note, it should be remembered that Civ has all sorts of irrational 
things in it.  Population boom rules under a Republic / Democracy are 
irrational.  Magellan's Expedition is irrational.  They're just neat little 
things put into the game as a mechanic.  I read an article by Sid Meier one 
time, he said his goal was to make the most *tangible* game mechanic, not the 
most realistic one.  You're dealing with city tile production because it's 
tangible, not because it's realistic.


Cheers,                         www.indiegamedesign.com
Brandon Van Every               Seattle, WA

"Desperation is the motherfucker of Invention." - Robert Prestridge