[aclug-L] Re: Richard Reid

[Michael Moore <mrmoore@xxxxxxx>]

Lars von dem Ast wrote:

>After reading this for a while, I thought I'd attempt to say something.
>
>My sister married an Iranian back in the early '80s. I got to know 
>Mohammed very well over the next 13 years. (They later divorced.) He was 
>a Shiite Fundamentalist Khomeni supporter--the full 9-yards. We talked 
>and talked over that space of time. What he said, coupled with my own 7 
>years experiences in Europe and my military intelligence experiences 
>(ASA), gave me a very complete but uncomfortable picture of my homeland.
>
>Make no mistake about it, we, the U.S. of A, are running an empire. And 
>in case you slept through your history lessons, empires rise, dominate, 
>then fall due to a build-up of fanatical hatred of them, exhausted, 
>sucked-dry clients, and internal decay and collapse. The Roman empire 
>fell hard. So will we probably--not like the 19th century European 
>empires who snuck out the back doors and went home. And many, many 
>millions will celebrate. You can tell yourself pretty lies like "You 
>hate our freedom" when describing our enemies, but at some point our 
>domination will end just like all fat, greasy, obnoxious empires end. 
>We're now somewhere between Jim Jones and Captain Ahab.
>  
>

Will the USA as we know it come to an end?  Perhaps.  But, comparing us 
to the Roman Empire is very insulting.  Maybe, you should go back an 
read your history books.  Last time I checked our Presidents don't come 
to power by killing the previous President.

I don't think people of other Nations hate our freedom.  In fact, I 
think lots of times we are hated just becuase of our success.

There's no doubt that if a group or a country is successful for a long 
period of time other people get jealous and over time people want them 
to loose so they can have a chance to be on top.

How about a typical American Sports Reference:
For example; Look at the NBA team the Boston Celtics:  They won 
championships 11 years in a row.  The majority of the country got tired 
of them winning all the championships becuase they wanted their team to 
be #1.  So, a lot of people really started hating the Celtics.  But, 
know body started killing them.

>What! You may scream. The U.S. is a mean old empire just like Rome? Oh 
>yes! Sure, I would also call the terrorists just a bunch of lunatics. 
>But I guarantee you there are many millions of young men throughout the 
>world who envy the "heroics" of those terrorists. The actual terrorists 
>are just the tip of a huge pyramid of anti-American sentiment. That's 
>why this is so significant. The fact that you only see radical Muslims 
>attacking us is that only the wildest hatred spills over into such 
>action, while the vast sea of hatred towards us isn't translated into 
>such actions, and the cooler, more rational heads who would make good 
>dialog with us are pushed aside, unheard. This only fuels the fire....
>
>The vast majority of anti-Americanism I have encountered in my life 
>abroad came from decent, level-headed sincere people. Most of these 
>people understood that a certain amount of "pushiness" on our part 
>simply comes with the superpower territory. The world by and large has 
>been very tolerant of us. 
>

Tolerant of Us!!!  Yes, I agree we are the enemy.... NOT.  You make it 
sound like we are not just an Empire (as you put it); but, and Evil 
Empire and we must be destroyed.  The more I read what you have written 
the more I think it was written by Susan Sarandon.

>But we're a machine. We're a mindless growth 
>machine
>

A mindless growth machine......Obviously, you are speaking about 
yourself.  You don't represent me.

> pushing our global economic agenda to every corner of the world, 
>always trying to dress it up as "aid" or "development" or "stability" or 
>"progress". And now we've got enemies like you've never heard of before. 
>Just like Rome. Of course a Frenchman turning up his nose at an American 
>tourist putting ketchup on an omlette is different from a terrorist, but 
>there is a huge sea of negativity towards us--and now it's coming at us.
>

I know you have sincere concern  about how we are viewed.  But, how 
would you change it.  After all, know matter what we do we are going to 
be hated for it.  You said, we are a mindless growth machine.

>
>Once my brother-in-law was confronted by some typical American who 
>shouted at him, "Why you hate us? Why you call us 'the Great Satan.?" 
>Mohammed said God works through the spirit and Satan through the 
>material. So what place on earth is the most materialistic? What place 
>pushes materialism on the rest of the world?
>  
>

We don't push materialism.......we push freedom.  I would be interested 
to know of just (1) US American who ever said we are triing to help 
liberate a people in the name of Materialism.  By the way,  you don't 
have to be materialistic........In the name of freedom you have the 
choice not to be materialistic.  If you want to make all these people 
with this twisted view of Americans happy, then destroy all of your 
possessions (including your computer) and wonder the streets.  Also, the 
rest of the USA is not going to do that either.

Okay, so you don't want to make them that happy.  So, how do you solve 
this problem.  Well, what many Democrats want to do is sit back and do 
nothing.  Let these terrorist come and destroy us and then the world 
will be happy.

>When the 9/11 attack happened there was a very big soccer match just 
>beginning in Iran, their version of the Super Bowl. At the Teheran 
>stadium they asked for a minute of silence in the memory of the WTC 
>victims, likewise, on the TV broadcast of the game. Dead silence. Do you 
>think some tragedy in Iran would have had our Super Bowl audience silent 
>for 60 seconds? What would those slobs have done but cheered for dead 
>Iranians? For a brief moment, even those who hated us the most 
>sympathized with us.
>

You have got to be joking?  I don't know what kind of sick people you 
hang out with; but, if they would cheer for dead Iranians you should 
pick new friends.  There are Iranian terrorist camps and there are some 
terrorist coming out of Iran.  If one of those people gets killed before 
he can complete a successful terrorist attack, then no I am not going to 
have a moment of silence for that dead terrorist.

On the other hand, if the Iran govt uses some of their terrorist or 
military to kill some of their population that is triing to establish a 
Democracy movement then you bet a moment of silence is in order.  I 
don't know what your ex-brother-In-Law has told you recently; but, there 
is a large portion of the Iranian people that are friendly toward the 
USA.  There is a younger generation movement in Iran that wants freedom 
and anytime things look like they might progress the Iranian govt slaps 
it down.

I must admit: that Bush's reference to Iran in his State Of The Union 
Speech in 2002 was not wise.  He should have made a distinction between 
certain Iranian factions and the Iranian people themselves.

> For once, I totally agree with the Mennonites peace 
>and reconcilliation approach. Can you imagine where we'd be today had 
>Bush taken the Mennonite approach? The world's collective jaw would have 
>dropped and a great reconcilliation would have begun. But I know very 
>well why he didn't. Because the world would TELL us what they didn't 
>like about us. Bush and his handlers know already and don't want to 
>hear. That's why we follow the insanity of total revenge.
>
>Mark my words, Bush is taking us down the road to ruin. 
>

Well, this is where you have shown your true colors.  Like the rest of 
the Left-Wing Liberal Democrats your hatred for Bush is clouding your 
judgement.  Get over it, Al lost.

Frankly, I am insulted by all this policatical rediric you spout.  You 
would rather sit back, do nothing and put all our lives in jeopardy.

I am really becoming amazed to see how many liberals there are in this 
club.  Am I the only conservative in this group?

>Historically we 
>can be compared to Rome right about when they sacked Jerusalem ca. 60 
>AD. i.e., big and powerful...and beginning to have to use that power 
>more and more. We're on our way out with Bush....
>
>Beating up pathetic wannabes like this Reid character might feel good, 
>but the huge sea of anti-Americanism out there won't go away just 
>because we do self-righteous "feel-good" Perry Mason theater and lock 
>him up forever.
>

Do me a favor and send your email to the people on that flight.  I have 
a feeling their response would be a lot harser than mine.
By the way, Reid was not a pathetic wannabe.  He was in the process of 
lighting the fuse to the explosives in his shoe when he was taken down.  

Democrats new moto "Have you hugged a terrorist today?"

>
>One parting thought: Let's look at 1930's Germany. The Germans were 
>blustery and jingoistic and nationalistic and talked about how wounded 
>they were and how they weren't gunna take it anymore and had a big 
>military and a loud-talking leader--lots of anxieties fueled even more 
>by a weak economy. Sound familiar?
>

Simply Amazing.  Comparing the USA to Natiz Germany.  And comparing Bush 
to Hitler.

Are you sure you posed this to the right place?  I think you are looking 
for the anti-american news-group.

>Lb
>
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