[Freeciv-Dev] Re: (PR#3565) End of turn moves

["ue80@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx" <ue80@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

On Tue, Sep 23, 2003 at 08:53:19AM -0700, Christian Knoke wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 23, 2003 at 06:27:26AM -0700, Thomas Strub wrote:
> > On Tue, Sep 23, 2003 at 03:03:12AM -0700, Christian Knoke wrote:
> > > On Mon, Sep 22, 2003 at 08:11:41PM -0700, John Wheeler wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > [ue80@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx - Fri Feb 28 19:03:32 2003]:
> > > > > i really dislike end of turn moves.
> > > > > People use that trick to get nearer to enemy cities and the defending
> > > > > person has no chance to react. 
> > > 
> > > React by moving a unit into the city? React by setting a unit on Goto? Or
> > > react by creating a unit or a city wall?
> > 
> > Buying a new unit, moving unit back to defend, killing the attacking unit 
> > (a warrior landed from a trireme is easy to kill with a fregatte.)
> >  
> > > One approach that comes to mind - but doesn't resolve everything - is, to
> > > *not* allow unit moves during last 10 seconds before timeout. This 
> > > includes
> > > a delay of the new turn by 10 seconds, when everybody has clicked on turn
> > > done *before* timeout.
> > 
> > This: 
> >  - Makes the game slower.
> 
> Possible. When players start a turn with moving, and manage afterwards, ther
> won't be a significant slowdown.

I usually start with moving and manage the cities where i got new units
or which i got from my enemy. And don't do really more management.

And in turns where aren't end of turn moves i don't need extra time at
the end of a turn. And in that turns every extra second a turn needs is
wasted.

> >  - You can't fight back an incoming diplomat. (moved 9.9 secs before
> >    timeout) Because you can't move you can't fight it away.
> 
> I don't see this. You can use goto to attack, can't you?

Attack with a "slow" diplomat. The attacker has 10 seconds to decide
which action he want's to do.
 
> >  - Same for canons and other 1 moving units (50% chance to fight next
> >    turn before your enemy.) When backfighting unit is farer away, you
> >    can't fight back.
> 
> Why do you think 50% isn't fair?

Because in the other case i have 100% chance to kill the canon in front
of my city which is defended with a musketeer.
 
> >  - You can't move your defending units back to city.
> 
> Goto with waypoints. Maybe a minor improvement of Goto is needed.
> But sure, you will only have one (the next) turn to move. Maybe this makes
> attacking easier?

When you don't have enough movepoints you never reach the city.
 
> > > IMHO, this also makes game fairer, because some people suffer from slow
> > > connection (and client?!) and do have a 'moving' timeout (you see some
> > > seconds on the clock, but cannot move anymore in this turn). These are 
> > > even
> > > more concerned about surprise attacks.
> > 
> > It makes the game slower, against clientside autoattack (with autoget
> > cities) it doesn't help ...
> 
> Can you explain, please?

Why the game is slow i explained above.

And that you don't have a chance against attacking units which are
controled by something like an macro independent to your connection
speed should be clear.
 
> > Perhaps it's slightly fairer, but against a fast connection it's
> > hopeless to play with a slow connection with the current modell.
> 
> Sure, this is only a minor improvement in this respect.

But it's not a big step to a fair game, and the drawbacks are to big in
my opinion.

Thomas
-- 
Thomas Strub  ***  eMail ue80@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
jb: people are stupid, they don't want to learn.