[Freeciv-Dev] Re: Perl for scripting (Re: Plans for 1.12)

[Lalo Martins <lalo@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

On Wed, Jun 28, 2000 at 05:42:32AM +0200, Tomasz Wegrzanowski wrote:
> 
> EmacsLisp is completely unreadable, so if Scheme
> is any similar to ELisp, it's ExtendedDOH will be low.

Agreed and agreed. (Actually I think Scheme is more readable
than Lisp, but still low DOHy.)


> Real C is completely unreadable. If you say opposite,
> think if you never searched for trivial bug for half an hour.

Agreed. And of course you're being kind :-) some trivial bugs
take days.


> For me Perl I more readable than both above, but
> I know there are some problems. They are caused by Perl's DWIM-ity.

I don't know. Most Perl programs can be understood _sooner or
later_, but they usually tend to later :-) Who never stood
nights reading some Perl code, with the enthusiasm of someone
who struggles with a good Chess problem?

Reading Perl code which was written by someone in "deep hack
mode" is almost an insight into the other programmer's head.


> > BTW... what one-element array problem?
> 
> Program :
> --- start
> twoelementarray = (1,2)
> oneelementarray = (1)
> print twoelementarray[0]
> print oneelementarray[0]
> --- end
> Output :
> --- start
> 1
> Traceback (innermost last):
>   File "py", line 4, in ?
>     print oneelementarray[0]
> TypeError: unsubscriptable object
> --- end
> 
> See ?

No, I don't :-)

Python doesn't have arrays; it has tuples and lists. Tuples are
an advanced concept, beginners will live happily with lists
most of the time. And an one-element list is written [1].

--- start
twoelementlist = [1,2]
oneelementlist = [1]
print twoelementlist[0]
print oneelementlist[0]
--- end

For people with any non-lisp'ish programming experience, [1]
will probably be more DOHish than (1), won't it?


> > > On the other hand perl has gigantic DOH-factor, because
> > > it is most TIMTOWTDI and most DWIM language.
> > 
> > Uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuh?
> 
> TIMTOWTDI = There Is More Than One Way To Do It

That's the biggest point of friction between Perl lovers and
Perl haters, right? :-)

TIMTOWTDI is good for the writer and problematic to the reader.

> DWIM = Do What I Mean (as opposed to Do What I Say)

Which leads to ambiguity, as you said above.

> This two mottoes are extremaly Perlish.
> You can easily find why Perl is TIMTOWTDI.
> Some example of DWIMity :
> 
> --- program
> @a = (1,2,3);
> @b = reverse @a;
> print "@a\n";
> $a = "1 2 3";
> $b = reverse $a;
> print "$a\n";
> --- end
> Result:
> --- start
> 3 2 1
> 3 2 1
> --- end
> 
> And yes, I know this upset every non-Perl programmer.
> But this is in 95% cases exactly what you wanted.

I think it makes sense. Actually, I don't see what else could
the result be.


> And you still haven't explained what a TLA is DOH  ... :-)

It's not an acronym, it's all-caps because it's usually said
very loud :-)

- Uh, how do you add variables A and B on Python?
- hmm, perhaps A + B?
- DOH! (Or D'OH, or DUH, or any variation...)


[]s,
                                               |alo
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