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Re: Suggestions: Next Meeting

Re: Suggestions: Next Meeting

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To: local@xxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Suggestions: Next Meeting
From: "James G ." <jamesga@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 17:27:07 -0600

It sounds like you didn't catch what I meant in my last email.

ACLUG seems to be oriented towards people past the beginner stage.
ACLUG people want to know what they can use GNU/Linux for instead of 
knowing how to use GNU/Linux itself.
Linux itself is after all just a 16MB kernel and associated modules, no 
more, no less. Thats why I suggested ACLUG be called an "Open Source Users 
Group" so as not to miss lead people into believing it is just about the 
Linux kernel (and the GNU-command line). Gnome and KDE are both used in 
other operating systems. Python, Perl, Apache, Zope, MySql, NFS, PHP, 
StarOffice, Java, Sendmail are all used under other OS's besides 
GNU/Linux. In fact, ls, df, du, ps, cp, rm, mkdir, grep, tar are all used 
by other Unix's. The only thing that makes Linux unique is Linux itself 
(the kernel).

But if only applications are covered (NOT GNU-command line OS stuff), we 
assume that people are already familar with the OS of thier choice. 
However, doing this leaves out people "new to GNU/Linux". "This" is the 
problem. We could continue this way, but if we do... make sure people 
understand this (not to say that this is a bad thing).

I personally would prefere covering "both" GNU/Linux "and" the 
applications that run on it. This is what I see the argument is 100% 
about. NO MORE complicated then that. But, I see covering "both" will not 
happen as to not ward off the experts. Right? I think you are 
mis-representing me. If I am wrong about this... please state the real 
problem using just a few sentances as to limit mis-understandings.

Also... you stated some applications only run under "Linux". Which apps 
are these?
Doesn't Solaris support "Linux" applications?

We are spliting hairs... but.. we should be truthful about what ACLUG is 
really about (whatever that is).

James Galimi

On 2002.02.10 15:05 Jonathan Hall wrote:
> If we do as you suggest, and only talk about the things that apply only
> to
> Linux, then we will be talking only aobut kernel internals, and I don't
> think anyone in our group knows enough to discuss it, and I dont' think
> anyone in our group cares enough to listen to such a discussion.
> A "Linux Users Group" should exist "to help Linux users" not "to help
> Linux
> users only with things that can be done only in Linux"
> I'm not sure how everyone else in the group feels, because we have not
> asked
> this specific question, but my feeling is that the general attitude is
> that
> the information or topics we've been covering are good, but that they
> need
> to be better prepared.
> If people feel that other topics need to be covered instead, then they
> are
> by all means welcome to express that opinion at meetings and/or in
> surveys
> (such as the one we did before last week's meeting)
> The fact of the matter is... you are the only one expressing this opinion
> so
> far.  And I think the opinion itself (not to devalue the opinion) is
> fundamentally flawed.
> The flaw lies in two areas:
> 1) "New users" don't give a rats ass about what makes Linux so 'special'
> as
> an OS.  What New users care about is the applications (some of which only
> run on Linux)
> 2) As I began to elude to earlier, the things that make Linux unique are
> fundamentally so obscure, that to talk about them without talking about
> app[lications would lead to a discussion of the Linux kernel source that
> nobody would want to listen to.  All the unix commands (ps, ls, mkdir,
> kill,
> top, wall, etc) exist on all Unix systems, so to discuss them would fall
> into the category of "aplications" that you think are useless to discuss.
> So, to get into something that is truely unique to Linux would require
> talking about how the Linux kernel differs from the FreeBSD kernel and
> the
> Solaris kernel, etc.  So we get to talk about things like... differing
> methods of virtual memory handling... Different types of process
> accounting,
> different ways to buffer filesystems, etc, etc, etc.  Thnigs that New
> users
> DEFINATELY are not interested in.  And things that most advanced users
> aren't even interested in.

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