[Freeciv] Re: ICS : Are map resources part of the problem?

["Luis Palma" <lpalma@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

I agree with Mike.
If you want a game tha simulates real life you just can't prevent ICS by 
itself, because, in fact, it is possible in real life. It is on the other way 
very, very difficult to maintain nowadays a big empire. Remember that when you 
go to another continent you must face with local natives that have their own 
believes. Sooner or later they will want to overcome your power with theirs. By 
then revolution and independence will make your empire fall.

Luis Palma

Em Sun, 04 Feb 2001 07:12:22 -0500 Mike Jing <miky40@xxxxxxxxxxx> escreveu:
Hi Robaire,

You are correct, that is certainly part of the problem, although not the 
most important part IMHO.   I also favor fewer spacials, especially whales.  
But don't be surprised when you find out most players hate this idea.  In 
any case, ICS works just fine in Civ2 as well, so this is not the main 
cause.

The root of the problem, as been discussed many times before, is that the 
free city center gives small cities a big advantage over slightly bigger 
cities, especially at the early stages of the game.  Small cities also grow 
faster, so fast expansion with a lot of small cities makes a lot of sense.  
Now, there is nothing wrong with expansion per se, but it is wrong, IMNSHO, 
that you can expand forever without any kind of significant penalty.  It is 
simply bad for game balance.  Because the benefit of city improvements comes 
about rather slowly, it is simply more cost effective to build settilers and 
found new cities than to try to develop existing ones.  It is also 
rediculously easy to wage war in Freeciv.  In fact, there is absolutely no 
way to ensure peace.  Therefore, anyone who attempts to build larger cities 
will be overrun by an ICSer way before the power of large cities are 
realized.

The solution, therefore, is to curb expansion and warfare.  The former can 
be done by a happiness penelty on empire size, and the latter through the 
senate.  This will make large number of small cities a practical 
impossibility, while giving civ builders more time to grow their cities to 
bigger sizes.

War is so popular because you have nothing to lose by going to war and 
everything to gain.  You don't have to switch to Monarchy or Communism to 
wage war, because there is no senate, so you don't suffer in science for 
being militarily aggressive.  It helps you to expand even more while at the 
same time weakens your enemy.  No wonder ICS+war is the order of the day in 
Freeciv.

In summary, until there is a way to limit the endless expansion and to 
ensure peace, ICS just won't go away.  What many people don't get though, is 
that Freeciv is much more than just a war game.  And until they do, any 
change in the right direction will be strongly opposed.  You can bet on it.

Mike

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