Complete.Org: Mailing Lists: Archives: freeciv: February 2001:
[Freeciv] Re: ICS : Are map resources part of the problem?
Home

[Freeciv] Re: ICS : Are map resources part of the problem?

[Top] [All Lists]

[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index] [Thread Index]
To: mike_jing@xxxxxxxxx, freeciv@xxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [Freeciv] Re: ICS : Are map resources part of the problem?
From: "R. Miller" <richere@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2001 09:03:55 -0500

At 07:12 01-02-04 -0500, Mike Jing wrote:
Hi Robaire,

You are correct, that is certainly part of the problem, although not the most important part IMHO. I also favor fewer spacials, especially whales. But don't be surprised when you find out most players hate this idea. In any case, ICS works just fine in Civ2 as well, so this is not the main cause.

The root of the problem, as been discussed many times before, is that the free city center gives small cities a big advantage over slightly bigger cities, especially at the early stages of the game. Small cities also grow faster, so fast expansion with a lot of small cities makes a lot of sense. Now, there is nothing wrong with expansion per se, but it is wrong, IMNSHO, that you can expand forever without any kind of significant penalty. It is simply bad for game balance. Because the benefit of city improvements comes about rather slowly, it is simply more cost effective to build settilers and found new cities than to try to develop existing ones. It is also rediculously easy to wage war in Freeciv. In fact, there is absolutely no way to ensure peace. Therefore, anyone who attempts to build larger cities will be overrun by an ICSer way before the power of large cities are realized.

The solution, therefore, is to curb expansion and warfare. The former can be done by a happiness penelty on empire size, and the latter through the senate. This will make large number of small cities a practical impossibility, while giving civ builders more time to grow their cities to bigger sizes.

War is so popular because you have nothing to lose by going to war and everything to gain. You don't have to switch to Monarchy or Communism to wage war, because there is no senate, so you don't suffer in science for being militarily aggressive. It helps you to expand even more while at the same time weakens your enemy. No wonder ICS+war is the order of the day in Freeciv.

In summary, until there is a way to limit the endless expansion and to ensure peace, ICS just won't go away. What many people don't get though, is that Freeciv is much more than just a war game. And until they do, any change in the right direction will be strongly opposed. You can bet on it.

Mike

Hello, Mike,

Thanks for the excellent synopsis. It's reassuring to learn that some of the people behind FreeCiv want to take it in a "civilised" direction and not concentrate exclusively on war. I don't think my wife would have spent as many early morning hours playing Civ against me ( and beating me ) if it had been strictly a wargame - her favourite Wonders were the Great Wall and the United Nations. For myself, I only played the "Bloodlust" option twice in the years we played the game, and found it thouroughly unsatisfying.

So, if FreeCiv were to become a wargame, I would drop it;
I would be interested in seeing a poll of player's sentiments in this regard - has it been done, yet?

Regards,

Robaire






[Prev in Thread] Current Thread [Next in Thread]