[Freeciv] Re: ICS : Are map resources part of the problem?

["R. Miller" <richere@xxxxxxxxxxxx>]

At 07:12 01-02-04 -0500, Mike Jing wrote:
> Hi Robaire,
>
> You are correct, that is certainly part of the problem, although not the 
> most important part IMHO.   I also favor fewer spacials, especially whales.
> But don't be surprised when you find out most players hate this idea.  In 
> any case, ICS works just fine in Civ2 as well, so this is not the main cause.
> The root of the problem, as been discussed many times before, is that the 
> free city center gives small cities a big advantage over slightly bigger 
> cities, especially at the early stages of the game.  Small cities also 
> grow faster, so fast expansion with a lot of small cities makes a lot of 
> sense.
> Now, there is nothing wrong with expansion per se, but it is wrong, 
> IMNSHO, that you can expand forever without any kind of significant 
> penalty.  It is simply bad for game balance.  Because the benefit of city 
> improvements comes about rather slowly, it is simply more cost effective 
> to build settilers and found new cities than to try to develop existing 
> ones.  It is also rediculously easy to wage war in Freeciv.  In fact, 
> there is absolutely no way to ensure peace.  Therefore, anyone who 
> attempts to build larger cities will be overrun by an ICSer way before the 
> power of large cities are realized.
> The solution, therefore, is to curb expansion and warfare.  The former can 
> be done by a happiness penelty on empire size, and the latter through the 
> senate.  This will make large number of small cities a practical 
> impossibility, while giving civ builders more time to grow their cities to 
> bigger sizes.
> War is so popular because you have nothing to lose by going to war and 
> everything to gain.  You don't have to switch to Monarchy or Communism to 
> wage war, because there is no senate, so you don't suffer in science for 
> being militarily aggressive.  It helps you to expand even more while at 
> the same time weakens your enemy.  No wonder ICS+war is the order of the 
> day in Freeciv.
> In summary, until there is a way to limit the endless expansion and to 
> ensure peace, ICS just won't go away.  What many people don't get though, 
> is that Freeciv is much more than just a war game.  And until they do, any 
> change in the right direction will be strongly opposed.  You can bet on it.
> Mike
Hello, Mike,

Thanks for the excellent synopsis. It's reassuring to learn that some of 
the people behind FreeCiv want to take it in a "civilised" direction and 
not concentrate exclusively on war. I don't think my wife would have spent 
as many early morning hours playing Civ against me ( and beating me ) if it 
had been strictly a wargame - her favourite Wonders were the Great Wall and 
the United Nations. For myself, I only played the "Bloodlust" option twice 
in the years we played the game, and found it thouroughly unsatisfying.
So, if FreeCiv were to become a wargame, I would drop it;
I would be interested in seeing a poll of player's sentiments in this 
regard - has it been done, yet?
Regards,

Robaire