[Freeciv-Dev] Re: the lack of respect for cloners

["Brandon J. Van Every" <vanevery@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

From: Thomas Strub
> Brandon wrote:
> >
> > [snip]
> >
> > That sounds like a plausible summary of your position.

Because it is.  The position is, "It's a grey area, and one cannot be
certain."

> > > but I am fairly confident that we do not.
> >
> > And that does not, because YANAL.
>
> He wrote nearly that which i read about legal issues in computer
> programms. Where is he wrong? You have your own opinion but you have
> nothing to prove it. I think you should read a little bit and
> after that come back after that.

IANAL, YANAL.  Either hire a lawyer or go to law school and take the
bar.  Then go to trial.  That is the *only* way you will know.  Not by
reading some magazines.  A grey area of the law means, you don't know
what can happen in court.  It's law at the litmus.  Such cases are risky
for both sides.  Kinda like how doing R&D is risky.  A "grey area" is
legal R&D.

> > And whether Hasbro or Firaxis' lawyers
> > could pin you on it, depends on how good their lawyers are
> > vs. yours, and how much money you each spend at a trial.
>
> You forget here one thing! The law.

You are very naive if you believe that.

> > But if your eye candy were to suddenly become as good as
> > Civ III's, due to the mobilization of volunteer artists and
> > whatnot, and
> > you're still cloning rather than creating your own content,
> > I bet that's
> > when the copyright holders would come knocking at your door.
>
> I would hold that bet. How high?

I think I'll wait until Freeciv actually looks commercially threatening,
before making such wagers.

> > Another variable to consider is how thoroughly you'd be
> > required to shut down to avoid going to trial.
>
> Think we would have the power of the FSF behind us.

Why would you think that?  For instance, if Dogs of War had slapped a
GPL on their code it certainly wouldn't have protected them.  And FSF is
not currently defending the Linux guys, although they have expressed
some opinions on the case.  One excellent thing you could do, however,
is talk to *their* lawyers about your position.  Maybe you can get some
free legal advice out of them.

> > Of course your *code* would live on, but you'd have to change your
> > infrastructure and faceplates.  Could be a bit disruptive for you.
>
> Even when that would be neccessary, what is the problem?

I did say "a bit" disruptive.  Since it's actually no punishment for
you, (in fact, you'd probably think it's fun), I hope if someone does
sue you, they do it for damages and make an example of one or more of
you.  'Cuz really, there's no other way to punish guys like you.

> You know how big the differences have to be to make 2
> different games?  I would say you don't.

Pretty minimal, judging by Call To Power II.  Let's not forget that they
started life as Civilization: Call To Power and were sued for it.
Although that's trademark rather than copyright infringement.  I'm
saying, if they could have gone after copyright infringement as well,
they would have.  But I've got both games and I see no possible way that
Civ II could sue CTP2 for copyright infringement.  They're clearly
different games.

You've never made it clear, you've willingly kept Freeciv faithful to
Civ II for a very long time.  That's why you could be sued.

> You know the copyright-laws from the countries
> where the developers are from?

Choice of venue is an interesting question.  Maybe they pick a country
that *one* of you is in, where the laws are favorable to their position.
They don't nail all of you, but they make an example out of a few of
you.


Cheers,                         www.indiegamedesign.com
Brandon Van Every               Seattle, WA

20% of the world is real.
80% is gobbledygook we make up inside our own heads.