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[Freeciv-Dev] Re: [PATCH] Fixing Warriors (PR#1351)

[Freeciv-Dev] Re: [PATCH] Fixing Warriors (PR#1351)

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To: Raahul Kumar <raahul_da_man@xxxxxxxxx>
Cc: Paul Zastoupil <paul@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>, Daniel L Speyer <dspeyer@xxxxxxxxxxx>, freeciv-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx, bugs@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [Freeciv-Dev] Re: [PATCH] Fixing Warriors (PR#1351)
From: "Ross W. Wetmore" <rwetmore@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 17:10:45 -0500

These are all ruleset changes, and provided you don't remove the standard
Civ "N" rules and leave a traditional Freeciv around you can do anything 
you want in adding new variants :-).

Personally, I seldom play on the standard rulesets even with Sid's games.

In pay-Civ, I think Warriors and Phalanx both expire with Feudalism, 
which makes a lot of sense. There is no need to change this.

I like Legions to be weak Musketeers or 3a,2d 2h,1f cost 30. Their 
historical strength was on defense, or endurance in attack mode. They
are *really* useful in this capacity. (Note 2h == 20 hitpoints in Freeciv)

I often drop Archers to 3a,1d 1h,1f cost 20 as an offensive unit vs
the Phalanx or Horseman which are defense and speed respectively.
2d is too much, and these really weren't defensive units, supporting
counter offence maybe, but not defense. Primitive catapults is a 
better way to view them in some respects.

Legions, Pikeman and Archers all expire with Gunpowder in Sid's Civ.

I also like tweaking the Elephant like Legion so its relationship to
Chariot and Knight is as follows. Elephants are obsoleted by Dragoons
like Knights.

Chariot   3a,1d,  1h,1f,  30
Elephant  3a,1d,  2h,1f,  30
Knights   4a,2d,  1h,1f,  40

Some others ...

Triremes and Caravel are cost 30. Triremes are obsoleted by Frigates.
Frigates are obsoleted by Cruisers (or sometimes Destroyers).
Frigates and Cruisers can transport a single unit.
Frigates cost 40
Ironclads are 2h not 3h making them weaker than Destroyers.
Ironclads and Submarines cost 50
Aegis Cruisers cost 90
Battleships cost 120
Helicopters cost 90
Nukes cost 200

Courthouses cost 60
Libraries cost 90
Supermarket cost 90
Coastal Defense cost 90

BTW: Chariots are *extremely* useful as counter offense. The 
     extra movepoint allows them to jump out and attack, or 
attack and (sometimes) retreat, while they have a punch to 
take out a fortified, or terrain boosted Phalanx that Horsemen 
really struggle with. They'll knock out Warriors in towns, but 
aren't really that good at reasonably defended fixed targets.
Use Archers as a cheaper way to hit towns until you get a Legion
or catapult.

Chariot (i.e. mobile unit) patrols is the best way to provide 
advanced warning and guerilla ambush attacks against an invader.
Or a centralized Chariot force that can reach a number of 
road/river networked towns can be a very cost effective defence
in the early game.

A couple Chariots in a defended town with a Barracks is a very
difficult target to attack - you need to swarm it as alternating
rest/attacking Chariots makes it very difficult to approach and
then attack. The Chariots get two or more chances at slow units
- a single attack at range 2, 2 attacks as they move adjacent.

Note, this is extremely effective at neutralizing a dumb AI (or
even dumb HI) as you can set up a killing field that endlessly 
drains production in a Civ that can neither quit nor learn to
properly estimate and coordinate multiple attacks.

At 03:30 PM 02/03/29 -0800, Raahul Kumar wrote:
>--- Paul Zastoupil <paul@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> On Thu, Mar 28, 2002 at 08:55:49PM -0800, Raahul Kumar wrote:
>> > I use catapaults with my pikemen/knights. I've never used a chariot since
>> Civ 1. Never ever used a legion in any game. I've almost never used
>> Why force me to use worthless units? I've got my 3 cheesy winning
strats, and
>> the last thing I want is to actually have to outthink my opponents. Quick 
>> moving  strikes are the way to go.
>> Original arguments aside, I think most people see this as a weakness in the
>> current game structure.
>> Why are the units worthless?  Why are they in the game?
>They are worthless because they perform no particular function. The
legion, for
>example, needs ironworking, does not attack as good as a catapault, does not
>defend as well as a pikemen, and lacks two moves. It's not useful for the
>period of time you have it. The chariot is always useless. There is never a
>time you could go on a conquering spree with chariots. Archers are like
>weaker legions, but since they are on the feudalism tech path, they get
>researched frequently.
>I'm open for suggestions as to how to fix the problem.
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover

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