[Freeciv-Dev] Re: Twitch-guard

[Daniel L Speyer <dspeyer@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

On Fri, 21 Sep 2001, [iso-8859-1] Daniel Sjölie wrote:

> On 2001-09-21 14:43:19, Daniel L Speyer wrote:
> > On Fri, 21 Sep 2001, Jules Bean wrote:
> > 
> > > On Fri, Sep 21, 2001 at 01:10:26PM -0400, Daniel L Speyer wrote:
> > > > 1) On a very large ccontinent, a placer wishes to send a settler from 
> > > > one
> > > > end to the other on a railroad.  Assume there is a timeout in the
> > > > game.  All the territory is safely controlled by the settler's owner, so
> > > > there shouldn't be a delay.
> > > 
> > > Yes.  Fine.
> > > 
> > > > 2) An undefended city is locked off by a battleship as shown:
> > > > 
> > > > .....           .=water
> > > > ...A.           A=Alpine troops
> > > > ..l..           l=(empty) land
> > > > .C...           C=(undefended) city
> > > > ....B           B=battleship
> > > > 
> > > > Now, the owner of the city doesn't know the battleship is there, but the
> > > > owner of the battleship is counting on preventing ground re-inforcements
> > > > from reaching the city.  If the Alpine Troops pause, then their owner 
> > > > will
> > > > know *something* is waiting to attack, but if they don't, this strategy
> > > > won't work.
> > > 
> > > Do battleships have ZOC range 2?  If not, then there is no problem:
> > > the square 'l' is  not in their ZOC.  
> > > 
> > > If battleships do have ZOC 2, then I can think of other circumstances
> > > when an enemy can 'spot' them from afar in the same way.
> > > 
> > 
> > Battleships don't have ZOC at all.  However, they do have vision=2, and
> > the strategy I described is a credible one to want from
> > client-scripting.  It works in the real world (I think).
> 
> I really don't see the problem... There will only be a delay when you
> enter enemy's ZOC - how could a battleship without ZOC possibly matter
> in any way here???
> Anyway, I think there are problems with the ZOC approach (it will always
> give the defender a chance to attack first that might very vell be too
> god) - borders are really what would make this feature natural...
> 
> Hmm... Maybe I see (part of?) your point above now... Do you mean that
> since you won't see a unit passing the border if it is not visible to any
> unit giving it a delay does nothing for your ability to act upon it and
> thus the delay could be skipped thereby letting the invader know that he
> is unseen? (Long sentence :)
> I don't see how this could come up with ZOC though since everything has
> at least 1 visibility and nothing has more than 1 ZOC (I believe?) -
> thus you always see the unit slowing you down, right?
> With borders I think simply making it so you always get a delay when
> passing a border is a very good solution...
> 
> So, I still don't see the problem...

The problem is that ZOC alone is inadequate.  The tactic described is
exactly the sort of thing this pause would be for, even though no ZOCing
takes place.  The rest of the commentary was showing how there isn't a
simple modification to ZOC that would fix this sort of problem.

--Daniel Speyer
"May the /src be with you, always"


> 
> /Daniel
> 
> -- 
> Now take a deep breath, smile and don't take life so seriously... :)
> 
>