[Freeciv-Dev] Re: Civ II player puzzled by ICS strategy (long)

[Aliaga <aliaga@xxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Hi,

At 13:55 10/01/01 -0500, you wrote:

>This is easily done via a server option: "set unhappysize=1" will 
>aproximately give you Deity level.  However, nobody seems to want to let go 
>of their good old ways.

I see. People are free to play what they like best. If they like easy empire
building, easy ICS and win by easy tactics...

On the other hand, if it is not too hard, some server(s) could be set up for
the more "advanced" or "challenge-oriented" players...

Still other servers with longer/shorter/whatever timeouts...

Servers playing only historical maps...

Etcetera...

Let people "vote with their mouse"... even display rankings ala Civ "Hall of
Fame" to see who wins what kind of game... (everybody termed as "The Meek",
"The Unready", "The Iron Fist"... boy was that cool :-)


>BTW, I have already concluded that patching out the city center is not the 
>right way to go and thus abandoned that approach.

Fine, but, as a programmer myself, I'd say do not throw away that code...
one never knows.   :-)


>I am certain this is indeed a real threshold in CivII.

*sigh* It's been too much time since my last game there... I used to _dream_
that Rules.txt file...


>That's the whole idea.  It's called game balance.

It was really enthralling to be able to muck the rules so much and still the
thing balanced itsef so nicely.


>Problem is, neither the corruption or unhappiness level in Freeciv is high 
>enough to put a stop to ICS.

...

>I believe it will not be enough.  There will still be enough loopholes to 
>allow ICS to succeed.

Well, there's no need to ban ICS. Only slow it. Allow other empire-builders
to defend themselves up to the point where big cities matter. Let ICS
players know what happens when irresistible forces meet unbeatable
defenses...    :-D


>Remember there is really no concept of "Deity" or "King" level in Freeciv.  
>You have to adjust individial parameters separately in the rulesets or the
server options.

This may be a bonus. Make a list of pseudo-levels of difficulty attainable
by nudging every parameter a bit every way. Have a dozen of them. Let people
"vote" on them, playtest them, invent strategies for them... invest
everything in some start-up company specialized in life-support sistems for
addict net-players...    :-)


>That's only where it is most obvious.  Even on other types of maps, ICS 
>still holds an undisputed advantage.

I'd like to be able myself to test that. I believe that by improving some
defensive capabilities of a handful of units/terrains the easier onslaughts
could be repelled and things would be not so straightforward for the
single-minded attacker.


>Well, if it unbalances the game, it _is_ a loophole.  The one in CivII is 
>that, although there are very unhappy citizens, the wonders make then go 
>away easily.  My patches will make this more difficult, and thus effectively 
>reduce the effectiveness of happiness wonders.

Well, nukes unbalance the game. Launching the spaceship unbalances the game.
Lots of ironclads unbalance the game. Hordes of wealthy diplomats unbalance
the game. When I can afford to build every WoW I want or take any one of
them from an enemy, then the game is unbalanced and I'll win. It's the "big
get bigger" problem that people complain about...

I'd call something a loophole if this unbalancing is achieved by some
easy/cheap mean. Here you have a point. These happiness wonders are too
powerful at a bargain price, and I, for one, would like to see their
cost/benefits tweakable... or even to be able to build "counter-wonders"...

By the way, off topic... first thing I changed in CivII was rename the
Eiffel Tower to OLIMPIC GAMES. Made much more sense to me, and it was kinda
neat seeing several tribes pursuing them...

        M.A.

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