[Freeciv-Dev] Re: Cost of wonders

[Tomasz Wegrzanowski <maniek@xxxxxxxx>]

On Wed, Feb 02, 2000 at 08:35:46PM -0500, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> Paul Zastoupil (paulz@xxxxxxxx) wrote:
> > Tomasz Wegrzanowski wrote:
> > > Great Library           300->400
> 
> This one's only worth building to keep it out of the hands of other
> people.  Ideally you want to be the fore-runner in the tech race, not
> playing catch-up.
> 
> I never get a chance to build this one anyway; the AIs zoom to it.  I
> get any techs I missed by conquering the AI cities. :-)

It gives you a few advances, even if you are leading scientist
(this not in main tree).

> > > Leonardo's Workshop     400->600
> > 
> > In most games (i.e. ones I have played, and watched on
> > civserver.freeciv.org), Leonardo's isn't worth the 400 it now costs.
> 
> If it worked as in Civ2, it would be much more powerful.  In Civ2,
> it updates *all* your units at once, not just one per turn.
> 
> It can be made worthwhile in Freeciv, but only if you plan your game
> around it.  (Stockpile Warriors and Horsemen and let them be upgraded
> to Musketeers/Riflemen and Dragoons/Cavalry; research Explosives early
> for Settler->Engineer upgrades.)  And you lose veteran status on the
> upgraded units.

Usually your settlers are not veterans, and most upgrades are
settlers->engeneers. And Explosives early + Leonardo
is one of most trivial tactics to win (and would be killer tactics
if leonardo worked as in mpciv2, and the best think would be to comment
leonardo out). Let us make it a bit harder.

> > > A.Smith's Trading Co.   400->600
> 
> This one's really nice for me, when I can get it; I usually play in
> Monarchy/Communism, so I need the cash.  In a Republic/Democracy it's
> not as critical, I don't think.

The main effect is that one builds twice more Temples/Harbours/Libraries/
Maretplaces that usually when he has Smith, so it saves you at least 3-4 coins
per city : it would be 100 coinst if you have 30 cities. Very strong.

> > > And no 1 :
> > > Michelangelo's Chapel
> > > 
> > > variant 1 : cost = 600, but will still be too strong
> > > variant 2 : same as in mpciv1 : double effect of cathedrals
> 
> Not so important for me; Communism's double martial law combined with a
> policy of keeping cities from getting too big means I can get by with just
> 1-2 weak units and a Temple.  For bigger cities I can use entertainers.
> I usually don't even need a Luxury setting.

For Republic/Democracy it is killer wonder : no martial law, huge cities
(rapture), 3(4) contents per city gives you about 70 contents if you
have 30 cities (not all is used), and save you money for temples in
smaler cities. But with 3-line patch we can set ruleset_variant=1 to
double effects of cathedrals. This can stay 400 shield then.

> What about Hoover Dam?  That one's pretty powerful if you ask me,
> especially if it's empire-wide and not just continent-wide.

IIRC this only affects cities with Factories already inside.
And this is very late wonder and costs 600.

> In Civ1 (but *not* in Civ2) Women's Suffrage is the game-breaker.
> It allows you to go to war under Republic with no unit-out-of-city
> unhappiness.  (In Civ2, the Women's Suffrage seems to be vestigial,
> with no useful abilities whatsoever.)

Agree.

> Finally, Magellan's is a must-have.  Movement rates of +2 on ships
> are *potent*.

But there is a variant to add only +1.