[freeciv-data] Re: [Freeciv-Dev] Re: fascism patch
[Top] [All Lists]
[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index] [Thread Index]
* "Reinier" == Reinier Post schrieb am Sun, 30 Jul 2000 17:04:31 +0200:
> We were discussing whether or not it is a good idea to exclude a
> Nazi nation from the Freeciv distribution.
A »Nazi nation« did never exist. There were only Germans who foolishly
followed a Fuehrer.
> Steve Hodge asks if I object to all games with swastikas. Yes, of
> course, but I don't intend to hold campaigns against games I would
> never touch. Freeciv however is my favourite game, I love to play it
> and a tiny bit of its code is mine. It's not so much my own
> sensitivity to swastikas that causes me to object, but that of many
> of the people around me, such as my family and some of the people I
> meet playing Freeciv.
I share your point on this. I would not like to appear my name in the
PEOPLE file of a game with nazi-flags.
> Rationally speaking there is no good reason to exclude Hitler from a
> game when Mao and Stalin can stay, or to exclude the swastika when
Hitler is already in there as a German leader.
> the communist flag is in. It's all a matter of perception. To
Where? The Russians got there own flag and the Chinese flag is in
> Nazis were oppressors from the West, the communists were oppressors
> from the East, and he thinks it's hypocritical to exclude one while
> keeping the other. (The Boers were added to prove this point.) To
The Boers are existing people.
> Germans, their grandparents *were* the evil Germans, they feel
> personal responsibility, and if they forget about it for a minute,
I do not feel personal responsibility for WWII, only to see to it,
that this cannot happen again.
> the other Europeans will remind them. The genocide was committed on
True, see what happens to Austria.
> us, with our collaboration. The war was fought right here at home.
> Every day I pass the spot where my aunt helped evacuate the remains
> of a hospital bombarded out of existence by British bombers - I
> don't live in Germany, it was a mistake, but it happened
> The swastika is a very powerful symbol - the nazis knew their PR -
> and today it symbolizes this past. Therefore, it remains very
> sensitive, especially in Germany.
It is not only sensitive - it is forbidden.
> So there is a difference in perception that I don't think can be
> settled with rational argument. You can only argue "sheesh it's just
Legal arguments are quite rational.
> a game" because Nazism is far enough away from you to allow you to
> do that. The only way I could try to explain this is through
> counterexamples closer to home. A Vietcong nation, or a Klan nation
> with Slavery as its wonder of the world - but all these examples
> would be forced, because Americans and Australians just do not feel
> guilty about their past in the way that many Germans do.
> So much for the rhetorics, what about the consequences?
> I don't think a Nazi nation can be excluded from the Freeciv
> distribution based on arguments of historical reality; it would be a
It can. It never existed.
> gesture to the personal sensibilities of some of Freeciv's users.
> Not including Nazis is a gesture to Mathias and others; not
> including Taiwan would be a gesture to Mike Jing and possibly
> others; as far as I'm concerned, the Boers will be out as soon as we
> get serious objections from the RSA; and if enough Russians, Poles
I don't see why. They did exist and still exist today. We are more
likely to get objections for using the RSA-flag for the Zulus.
> or others would object to the inclusion of Stalin and communism, I
> feel they would have to go as well.
We should maybe put fascism and communism together into totalitarism
or modern dictatorship. Occassionally you would get a message like
"n citisens of %s City have been identified as beeing evil and sent to
concentration camps". If this makes somebody happy.
[freeciv-data] Re: [Freeciv-Dev] Re: fascism patch, Gerhard Killesreiter, 2000/08/01
- [freeciv-data] Re: [Freeciv-Dev] Re: fascism patch, Reed Meyer, 2000/08/01
- [freeciv-data] Re: [Freeciv-Dev] Re: fascism patch,
Gerhard Killesreiter <=
- [freeciv-data] Re: [Freeciv-Dev] Re: fascism patch, Tomasz Wegrzanowski, 2000/08/01
- [freeciv-data] Re: [Freeciv-Dev] Re: fascism patch, Per I. Mathisen, 2000/08/02
- [freeciv-data] Re: [Freeciv-Dev] Re: fascism patch, Tomasz Wegrzanowski, 2000/08/02
- [freeciv-data] SV: Re: [Freeciv-Dev] Re: fascism patch, Erik Sigra, 2000/08/02
- [freeciv-data] Re: SV: Re: [Freeciv-Dev] Re: fascism patch, SamBC, 2000/08/02
- [freeciv-data] Re: SV: Re: [Freeciv-Dev] Re: fascism patch, Reinier Post, 2000/08/03