[aclug-L] Re: SMTP? used to be Re: RTFM

[bert <bert@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

On Sat, 15 Apr 2000, Carl D Cravens wrote:

> On Sat, 15 Apr 2000, bert wrote:
> 
> > Read The Fantastic Manual . . . 
> > 
> > earlier today i read that RTFM is "the key to learning."
> > i can't concur, as it is only one of the keys to learning.
> > some people are kinesthetic learners, others are visual
> > while still others are auditory learners. learning happens
> > in many ways, shapes, and forms. some of us even learn
> > from experience.

most of the time i'm not a good thinker, so learning becomes
more difficult for me.
 
> RTFM = use available resources to answer your question before bothering
> live people, whether that is a man page, FAQ, mailing list archive or
> whatever.  If there's a video, that's still an FM. (Fine Manual, BTW :)

i used fantastic cause it reminded me bs and that's bullshit.
i've heard fine used and even another, i guess in this case,
adjective used as well. sometimes common sense isn't all that
common. some don't consider those without the knack to comprehend
a bother. presentation adds to comprehension for many but not for
everyone.

> The bottom line is, people have made an attempt to make answers to common
> questions available to *avoid* having to answer those questions over and
> over.

i guess this fits into the why you need to know category

>  To bypass the FM (when you know it's available and don't even
> bother to look at it) and ask that question is ignorant at best and rude
> at worst.  Just because one might be an auditory learner doesn't mean one
> can't read a simple FAQ to see if the desired answer is there.  
> 
> You left out an important learning type... the spoon-fed learner.

and so many more.

> If it doesn't have an FM, you can't be reasonably told to RTFM.  You get
> told to RTFM when it's known that there's an FM and you obviously haven't
> read it.  Some who don't know about your particular flavor might assume
> that there's a manual that answers your question, and usually he'll be
> right... but sometimes he'll be wrong.  That's why one should indicate
> that one has RTFM'd or cannot locate a FM when asking questions... don't
> leave things to be assumed. 
> 
> If someone says RTFM in the tone of "go away boy, ya bother me," that's
> plain rude as well.  But not everyone is like that and there are far more
> cases of valid RTFM's than not in my experience. 
> 
> > the structures of these flavors doesn't always transfer from one
> > distro to another. the neapolitan flavor hasn't reached the market
> > yet. one still gets only one kernel.
> 
> Which is exactly the way it ought to be.  Distro fragmentation is enough
> of a problem, we don't need kernel fragmentation.  
  
as recently as 2 months ago, i thought each distro had a different
kernel.  aclug has helped to explain the various kernels for me.


> > comprehend the fantastic manual would seem to be
> > better advice, in most instances. and, again, in most
> > instances, one needs a mentor or instuctor to help
> > the apprentice along -- to comprehend -- to reach the
> > desired goal. of course, an apprenticeship or even
> > residency is accomplished in tiers or levels and these
> > do take time.
> 
> No problem.  But I'm not going to mentor you if you can't take the time to
> RTFM.  

i'm was speaking on comprehension of RTFM here . . . .

> > since aclug is a linux users group, all the distros
> > of linux should be embraced rather than pooh-poohing
> > one version and simply saying RTFM or read the man
> > pages or i don't use that, so i can't or don't want
> > to help.
 
> If nobody has an answer, nobody has an answer.  You can only ask
> volunteers to go so far out of their way to help, and you can't make them
> answer questions they don't know the answers to.  Nobody's obligated to
> help... they do it out of a desire, not a duty. 
> 
> If it's not a distro-specific question, don't mention your distro.

many newbies don't know how to phrase the question well enough for
someone to answer, as often they don't know what to leave in and what
to leave out.

>  If it is a distro-specific question, accept that nobody your asking may
> have the  answer.  And for what it's worth, I've seen the Debian
> power-geeks in ACLUG answering questions about other distros.  

it's worth a lot. it makes me want to learn debian to take advantage
of their knowledge, but i haven't installed it yet. i wouldn't be
running linux at all now if it were not for aclug and its debian
power-geeks.
  
> I'm not a distro snob, but I've used nothing but Debian when it comes to
> Linux.  I couldn't tell you the first thing about the differences between
> Debian and even the other major distros like Red Hat.  I started using
> Debian based on several recommendations for a reliable Linux for an
> experienced Unix admin and have never had a need to try anything else.  
> (One doesn't experiment with different distros when running a 24/7 server
> that's not gone down in over a year for distro-related reasons.)

so are you using slink now?

finally here's a question on SMTP or something that appears to be
computer related, maybe, that i'm not sure where to turn for answers . . .
.

when i do an ifconfig eth0 down i can drop my ip address from 
my isp.  if after the eth0 is down, i can bring it up, and get
an ip address again, but SMTP (?) doesn't work anymore.
any suggestions?

  


 


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