[Freeciv] Re: Wonders

["Michael C. Richardson" <mcr@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

 > I am confused with this thought.  Communism as a political system
 > causes unhappiness, not happiness.  Communism fails where ever it is
 > tried.  That is why it fails in the game.  People die trying to leave
 > communist states, not get into them.

  BTW: Despotism, Monarchy, and Republics have failed everywhere they have
been tried. I suspect in three hundred years, they will say the same thing
about Capitalism. This isn't because any of them are bad, but because we
evolve better ways of doing things. Note that I capitalize the words, because
they refer to specific implementations, not the underlying concept.
  Despotism has been very effective in many places, so long as you have the
right Despot. It fails inevitably because you get the wrong one.

>>>>> "horsch@decagon" == horsch@decagon de <Martin> writes:
    horsch@decagon> I don't agree if this means that you include communism
    horsch@decagon> only to show how it fails. A system without advantages
    horsch@decagon> should then not be integrated into the game at all.  I
    horsch@decagon> believe communism should increase shield values because
    horsch@decagon> centrally guided production is more efficient than
    horsch@decagon> decentral concurrence. It should increase happiness
    horsch@decagon> because its major goal is the total content of the
    horsch@decagon> citizens.  However, for communists, there are economical
    horsch@decagon> disadvantages (there might be a negative effect on the
    horsch@decagon> trade values) and the historical experience shows there

  Increases production as the expense of trade, yes. Perhaps even negate
the effect of "marketplaces"

    horsch@decagon> is a bad administration of territories situated far from
    horsch@decagon> the capital (because the administration is very
    horsch@decagon> centralized usually).  So there could be a negative
    horsch@decagon> effect on happiness increasing together with the distance
    horsch@decagon> from the capital.

  Yes! It should increase sheild production as a function of both distance
from the capital, and distance from a city with barracks, or a fortified unit. 

    horsch@decagon> In my opinion this would reflect the real experiences,
    horsch@decagon> since communist movements have more success in poor
    horsch@decagon> nation, where there are discontent working classes. In
    horsch@decagon> such countries, the negative effect on trade would not be
    horsch@decagon> large enough to prevent communism from being an efficient
    horsch@decagon> government. This effect would be enforced by the distance
    horsch@decagon> effect mentioned above, because the poor nations are the
    horsch@decagon> smaller ones in most cases.

    >> In the game, I think a communist state should have success until it
    >> encounters capitalism.  Then it would develop problems.  This I think
    >> would hold true to reality.

    horsch@decagon> Capitalism does always exist BEFORE communism, in
    horsch@decagon> reality. The collapse of the soviet union started with
    horsch@decagon> the independence of the peripheral republics, which would
    horsch@decagon> be reflected by the distance effect.

  But, the point is that communist states don't fall, on this planet, until
they have 
     a) groan large

     b) experienced the death of their revolutionaries (one reason why Cuba
        does not revolt again. You need time to breed new revolutionaries, 
        and for the old guard to die off a bit)

     c) encounter and/or *trade* with capitalist states.

  (c) suggests that a *Caravan* to a neighbouring communist state should,
in effect, act like a Spy to incite revolution. In addition, looking at
the relationship of the west with China, it should increase trade for the
capitalist state, at the cost of productivity. We buy lots of junk that
makes people happy for a short period of time (until it breaks) from
China. The cost is, however, at the cost of jobs.
  Communist states have tended to pollute much faster than capitalist states.
  They also, btw, put up a satellite earlier, likely due to productivity
gains.

   :!mcr!:            |  Cow#1: Are you worried about getting Mad Cow Disease?
   Michael Richardson |  Cow#2: No. I'm a duck.
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