[Freeciv-Dev] Game Design: put up or shut up

["Brandon J. Van Every" <vanevery@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

> From: freeciv-dev-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:freeciv-dev-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Morgan Jones
> Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2003 5:34 AM
> To: freeciv-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [Freeciv-Dev] Re: hobby as process?

Incidentally, increased levels of vitriol on my part were because I sent
that as private e-mail to Morgan Jones.  My private rants are often
harsher than my public ones.  But I wasn't overly clear about having
sent a private e-mail, and it's not like Morgan owes me privacy anyways.
Just saying I would have phrased things *slightly* differently for
public consumption.

But since the damage is done, I'll use is as an opportunity to skip to
the meat.

> > They need to put up or
> > shut up about whether they're going to ever allow any major changes
> > to the Sid Meier / Brian Reynolds universe.

Ok, yes, time to put up or shut up.  I'm sure you have technology goals
aplenty... but what's the *Game Design* roadmap for Freeciv?  What's
going to be allowed to majorly change?  Are you going to solve ICS?  Or
are you going to avoid it, for fear of messing with Civ II rules?  Do
you have some other big innovation in mind?  Or are you guys happy /
comfortable with Civ II forever?  Let's find that out now, so that if
you guys are basically cautious creatures, we don't have to waste any
more of each other's time.


Other reponses to a few points...

> > Name *one* way it's superior.
>
> Multiplayer.  It works on the Amiga.

Ok, you guys have won those points.

> CMA.

I am not convinced.  Civ II, SMAC, and Civ III all have rational
defaults towards *growth*.  Growth always makes you more shields and
money eventually.  The current default, Make Money Fast, is extremely
annoying as you will not grow and will not produce.  I've stopped
playing Freeciv exactly for this reason.  You wouldn't need CMA so much
if you had a reasonable default behavior.

CMA isn't enabled in the Windows client; if CMA is worth anything, that
should be rectified.  I even thought about poking at it myself, but
feeling you guys out on other issues has taken priority.  CMA is enabled
in the GTK+ client, but I have not yet played with it, and at a glance
the interface looks rather clunky.  I'll be interested to know what your
edicts about "no micromanagement" really mean when a component with 8
sliders and a few checkboxes is added on a per-city basis!

CMA reminds me that what I really want is a game with a national budget
and no per-city anything.  More reasons for me to get on with Ocean
Mars.  CMA is probably the last thing I'm going to evaluate about
Freeciv.  It's the final frontier.

> > Yes, I'm sure that if the basic drive of Freeciv developers is "to
> > tinker with guts" rather than "to improve the game design and the
> > AI," we will never see eye to eye. I call that pointless fiddling.
> > If you change the guts, it should *do* something.
>
> Got to get the guts working properly first before you add more organs.

You *have* working guts.

> This is obviously why there are different agendas here.  You are a
> professional and the rest of us are hobbyists or something.  We might
> not see the value of each others work but we should at least recognize
> the different kind of enjoyment we each get throughout the process.

I recognize that a lot of you guys are enjoying what you are doing.  As
a professional Game Designer, I always find pure techie cloners hard to
fathom.  I think for some people, engagement to technology is far more
important than any game innovation.  If the game is good, or good
enough, then it's about technology for them.  Whether the network
protocol is perfect and all of that.  I can *partly* understand that,
because I'm a Game Designer with an 11 year background in low-level 3D
graphics.  I've certainly clocked many hours obsessively improving
technology, getting pulled waaaay far away from game design goals.  I
don't do it anymore, but I've done it plenty in the past.

And just in case you're wondering what "professional" means in this
context: I haven't shipped a damn thing yet.  It means I've put my money
where my mouth is and have lost significant chunks of it.  I've been
doing this full time for almost 6 years now.  I spun my wheels for the
first 4, talking too much in comp.games.development.*.  Just to point
out that despite my rough tone, I don't think I'm completely higher and
mightier than thou.

I am, however, disappointed that you are squandering your talents IMO.
I do think it's time to put up or shut up about major game design
changes.  What's gonna change?


Cheers,                         www.indiegamedesign.com
Brandon Van Every               Seattle, WA

"Desperation is the motherfucker of Invention." - Robert Prestridge