[Freeciv-Dev] Re: Bombers/Fighters no longer obsolete (PR#1628)

[Raahul Kumar <raahul_da_man@xxxxxxxxx>]

--- Per I Mathisen <per@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> On Fri, 28 Jun 2002, Raahul Kumar wrote:
> > True. But then what is the point of upgrading to stealth bombers? A stealth
> > bomber must have more attackpower than a bomber. Think of it in terms of
> AA/SAM fire. The stealth bomber can take the time to pick out the exact
> > target(Canadian Soldiers), drop the bomb exactly on target and go home to
> > explain how it was all a mistake. Now take the normal bomber. They will be
> > fired at, won't have the time to line up the target, and will almost
> certainly not be able to drop on target. The Canadians live to fight another 
> day.
> 
> Well, what if the plane was a good old B52? The Canadians wouldn't have AA
> capable of reaching it, and its massive payload (unmatched by any stealth
> plane) would ensure news of the atrocity reached no-one...

;). You seem to remember the Afghanistan story where the Americans
"accidentally" shot up the unlucky Canadians. Ah, but accuracy goes to hell
when
you drop unguided weapons from high altitude. 

In real life Stealth Bombers are an overly expensive unit that only make sense
if they are armed with nukes. I don't want to model that in the game. As is,
Stealth Bombers are pretty weak. They have to hit harder than the unit they
replace.

> > > (All modern bombers have more or less stealth capabilities using radar
> > > absorbing materials. But I believe what is meant here by "stealth bomber"
> > > are planes especially built to evade detection by radar.)
> > >
> > > I am not aware of any existing stealth air superiority fighters. They
> > > don't really make that much sense.
> >
> > All new fighters are stealth apparently, in that they have radar absorbing
> > coverings etc. JSF, the Eurofighter etc etc.
> 
> So you don't agree with my distinction between some-stealth-added and
> built-for-stealth? Compare the B2 and a B52, or the F117 and the JSF. You
> notice how the former are built in a very special way to deflect radar,
> while the latter are built in a conventional way but uses some tricks to
> achieve a bit of the same effect. However, radar absorbing materials alone
> is _nowhere_ as stealthy as a specially built stealth airplane, and modern
> radars will track the latter without much problem.

The reason I claim that the newer fighters are "stealth" is because they are
far more so than their predecessors. I'm not claiming that their main design
brief is to be stealthy. The biggest difference between the next generation and
the last is stealth. And of course, much better electronics.

Also, the wonderfully custom built for stealth planes show up beautifully if
you use look down radar. A satellite/AWACS plane that is overhead can target
them very easily for any nearby SAM.
 
> Also, the JSF isn't an air superiority fighter. It is a fighter-bomber.

And what a fighter-bomber does when it is armed with missiles is normally
considered air superiority. No one is going to peel off the radar absorbing
paint, and other design features to make it less stealthy just because it is
now a fighter.
 
> > > As I said above, I don't see any reason for having Stealth Fighter as a
> > > unit. The big change came with jet engines, not stealth tech.
> >
> > I agree. So you want to introduce Jet Engines/Propeller etc?
> 
> The problem is the short amount of time (historically) between early
> aircraft and jet engines (and also rockets)... maybe we should just skip
> ahead to the next revolution in military avionics: Unmanned fighters?

I don't know how to show the major advantages of UAV's in Freeciv. Ideas?
We can remove the make people unhappy effect. No one cares if you lose a cruise
missile/UAV. Maybe a pop cost of 1 for normal units? So that an UAV doesn't
cost you any pop.
 
> Yours,
> Per
> 
> "If the Nuremberg laws were applied today, then every
> Post-War American president would have to be hanged."
>  - Noam Chomsky
> 
> 

Aloha,
RK.

I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous. -Brian W. Kernighan

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