[Freeciv-Dev] Re: Artillery and sea units (PR#1476)

[Thanasis Kinias <tkinias@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

scripsit Raahul Kumar:
> 
> --- Richard Stallman <rms@xxxxxxx> wrote:
> >       The difference
> >     is just that the Athenians called their form of government _dimokratia_
> >     (rule by the people) and the Romans called theirs _res_ _publica_ (the
> >     people's `thing' or however one chooses to translate _res_).  The idea
> >     of both was popular sovereignty (for a given value of "populus"), but
> >     the cultures differed in their interpretation of what that meant.
> >     Neither would be considered very democratic in modern (EU or US) terms.
> > 
> > I beg to differ; I think the Athenian democracy was clearly a real
> > democracy.  I don't think many would disagree with that.
> 
> I would. Violently. A democracy where you have to own property to be
> eligible to vote, excludes 50% of the population(women) and has
> slaves(1/4 of the population) is certainly a new definition of the
> word. And if you moved there from outside, you would never gain the
> right to vote.

You beat me to the line, Raahul!  That's what I meant.

That's not to imply, BTW, that the Athenian government was "bad" --
compared to other options at the time, it may have been close to ideal
-- but that if an EU member tried to implement it today they would be
ostracized in a hurry.  ("We want a real democracy -- only middle-class
men vote -- and we're reintroducing slavery.  Hey, what's with the
protesters outside?")

> It is certainly not the type of democracy represented in Freeciv. The
> democracy in Freeciv is clearly of a much more modern variety.

And we should call it something more descriptive.  I also think we need
to distinguish liberal from social government -- they're not the same
thing.

> You would need to add slavery for historical accuracy. As a practical
> matter, it would prove difficult.

I don't think it matters at the Freeciv level whether they're slaves or
"free" sweatshop workers.  It's just an exploited underclass, and is
represented by increased unhappiness.

-- 
Thanasis Kinias
Web Developer, Information Technology
Graduate Student, Department of History
Arizona State University
Tempe, Arizona, U.S.A.

Ash nazg durbatulûk, ash nazg gimbatul,
Ash nazg thrakatulûk agh burzum-ishi krimpatul