[freeciv-data] rules for nations? (was: [Freeciv-Dev] new german.ruleset)

[Reinier Post <rp@xxxxxxxxxx>]

On Fri, Jan 05, 2001 at 05:18:59PM +0100, Gerhard Killesreiter wrote:
> Niels Weber <nath@xxxxxxxx> writes:
> 
> > I just edited the file german.ruleset, so that now all cities above
> > 100K inhabitants are included (sorted by size). I also removed some
> > cities that aren't german but austrian, french or italian today.
>  
> So you did create a federal_republic_of_germany_from_1990.ruleset
> with historically "important" cities such as Bielefeld or Bottrop.
> 
> I think we need to establish a general way to determine what content a
> ruleset should contain.

A nation.ruleset, you mean?

> In the past, it seems to me, somebody could send a patch and it was
> applied if nobody cared to protest. Mostly cities/leaders were added
> rather than removed.

After the latest protest (when one of the maintainers told us to
shut up because 'Freeciv is better off without you') I wanted to
have a 'Freeciv nations FAQ' which would list rules, on which the
list members can agree.

> More recently, there was a complaint from two people from Lithuania
> who disliked one of the leaders in lithuania.ruleset. Nobody cared and
> jjm replaced him. What would happen if a number of Germans would
> request Adolf Hitler to be removed from german.ruleset? I am quite
> sure that he is not that popular anymore.

Is this a problem if noone else objects to it?

> AFAIR Mussolini is not included in italian.ruleset, but Franco is in
> spanish.ruleset. This is not consistent.

Is innconsistency a problem in itself?  Do you object to it?
 
> Moreover, it happens that cities which are included in a ruleset are
> not in the country the ruleset represents today. E.g. Schlettstadt in
> german.ruleset, Islas Malvinas in argentine.ruleset. Maybe more.
> 
> Other rulesets contain partially the same cities (german/bavarian).
> 
> What should happen to people/their cities not owning a country today?

Some previous discussions on this topic:

  http://arch.freeciv.org/freeciv-dev-199908/msg00309.html
  http://arch.freeciv.org/freeciv-dev-199909/msg00001.html

  http://arch.freeciv.org/freeciv-dev-199909/msg00129.html

I propose to adopt the following rules for nations:

There are three kinds of nations:

    + modern
    + historical
    + fantasy

A nation is 'modern' if its name it suggests identification with a
nation that actually exists today, unless it is explicitly part of a
historic or fantasy nation ruleset.  Its city names must be names of
cities that are part of the actual nation today.  Its rulers must have
been rulers of this actual nation at one point in time; its flag must be
the present flag; its default ruler must be the present ruler.

A nation is 'historical' if it is not modern and its name suggests
identification with a nation that once existed.  Its city names must be
names of cities that have part of the nation at one point in time; the
flag must represent a flag or symbol that historically represents the
nation; its rulers must have been rulers of the nation at one point in time.

A nation is 'fantasy' it is not modern or historic.  There are no
rules for the names of its cities or rulers.

The policy on matters of actual or historical fact is to allow everything in
that nobody objects to, but to grant every objection that can be said to be
based on the rules above.

Finally, the nation rulesets distributed with Freeciv must not be
illegal anywhere.  (As far as I know, this only affects flags.)

For example, at the moment, Hitler is part of the rulers of modern Germany;
as long as nobody objects, that is fine.  An objection could be based on
the claim that modern Germany is not the same nation that Hitler ruled.
This objection would be strong enough to get him removed.  It would not
get him removed from a 'Historical Germany' nation.  The nazi flag is
disallowed even for a 'Nazi Germany' nation, and copyrighted artwork
is disallowed as well, but it can, of course, be distributed separately
from Freeciv.

The names of cities and rulers are expected to be unique within a
ruleset.  The code does not actually assume this, so incidental
violations are tolerated. (One reason to allow this is that the same
name may refer to different cities.)  It is allowed for two (different)
names to refer to the same city (eg. Massilia for the Ancient Greeks,
Marseille for the French).  (The code doesn't know about that anyway.)

> I propose to discuss this matter in freeciv-data, rather than here.
> Follow-up is set.

Thanks.  (I'm redirecting this reply there.)
 
-- 
Reinier