[aclug-L] Re: An idea -- any volunteers/helpers?

["Ryan Hunt" <ryan@xxxxxxxx>]

As I figured, my abilities to express my self were lacking and this was
going to be taken in the wrong way...


>
>> Well, i hate to tell you this but apparently you are absolutely
>> unaware of what happened at yesterdays meeting.. since I didn't see
>> you there and this EXACT same issue was discussed completely..  We
>> talked alot about having a formal membership to ACLUG for people who
>> attend meetings and/or help in aclug events.. I don't think anything
>> was written in stone from yesterdays meeting but there was an
>> agreement to start a new mailing list and all the members have to sign
>> up in person at a meeting...
>
> Ryan, I'm sorry that you hate to tell me the facts.  I appreciate the
> facts.   Also, have we met before?  I'm not sure how you know I wasn't
> at the meeting  last night.  Or how Koji has never been to a meeting
> (you've never seen him or  me right?).

Again, Yesterday we made a point to introduce everyone who attended the
meeting, I've never said he has not been to a meeting.. But I know he was not
at yesterdays meeting when the topic was being discussed...


>
> If the minutes from the meetings aren't posted to the list, how are the
> regular  readers of the list supposed to know what happened.  Right,
> attend the  meetings.  I get it.
>

That is something I believe they are working on.. posting meeting summary
online..

>> Don't take it wrong, the idea is not to exclude people who don't
>> attend.. or try to make the group more CLIQE'ish like some people
>> think.. I'm sure everyone in the council gladly accepts all forms of
>> input.. I know they are welcoming all the input they can get right
>> now... There are aprox 300 people signed up to the ACLUG mailing list
>> and there is no way all of those people attend meetings... and at
>> meetings is where aclug business takes place, elections are held and
>> debates take place.. the truth is that unless you go to the meeting
>> you have little or no input on ACLUG business.. Many of the people who
>> attend meetings stressed they wanted a place online where business can
>> take place (hence the new mailing list)
>
> This "new" list idea is inherently exclusionary and seems un-necessary.
>
> Why have any list at all? Ryan seems to believe that the MEETINGS and
> only the  MEETINGS are the valuable part of ACLUG.  It's where the
> business gets done  right?  It the only forum for suggestions and the
> only channel that will be  heeded and the only place for decisions to
> be proposed and ratified.

I'm not suggesting we don't want suggestions, ideas, questions from people who
don't attend.. Not at all, everyone is completely free and welcome to
participate completely online and never attend a meeting...

There is however a need for those who attend the meetings to be able to
communicate between each other... Like you said, how am I supposed to know
who showed up to what meeting.. From yesterdays meeting most people were
supportive of a form of sign in sheet or roll call at meetings so we have
records of who showed up and if its there first meeting or what...

Another reason for the other forum is for when votes have to take place..
Yesterday there were a few people who participate in ACLUG constantly who
could not make it... We should include these people when we take a survey on
what day of the week we should hold a meeting on since they actually attend..
This is another reason why another mailing list was chosen..

>
>> Major internal reorginsation of ACLUG is taking place right now and
>> lots of things are likely to change in the coming months.. And its the
>> people who take the time to attend meetings that the council wants the
>> most input from.. Don't take it personal if you have never attended a
>> meeting and you seem to get blown off, thruthfully if you don't attend
>> a meeting you would be lucky to know 25% of what's going on in ACLUG..
>
> I'm glad the group is focused on re-organizing and changing.  I'm sorry
> that I  have to hold the conch at a meeting to have my opinions and
> suggestions heard.

You don't have to attend a meeting to have your opinions and suggestions
heard, however there are topics that we need opinions and suggestions on
that only people who go to meetings should have input on.. For example, which
days to have meetings on, and how often, which topics need to be discussed
and whatnot.. If you don't attend then all this is irevelant to you..

> Does anyone from the high holy council accept the responsibility to
> inform the  list members of what happened at the meetings?

I have no idea, but I do agree that it needs to be done

> If the meetings are the "thing" or the passkey to ACLUG membership,
> then ACLUG  effectively and terminally limits its audience to FAR less
> than the 300 current  subscribers to the various lists.  Which seems to
> me to be the direct anthesis  of "spreading the linux gospel".

A formal membership might bring more people to meetings, which is the main
goal.. I don't think anyone cares how friggin many people subscribe to the
mailing lists.. Its the number of people who come to meetings that we are
concerned with.. If there were special benefits for attending (like book
discounts, invites to other aclug events or whatever they come up with) then
that might entice people to at least come and visit us every once and a while...

> In a previous post, I made a suggestion that we be polite and
> respectful of  others and their respective opinions and suggestions.

I completely agree, although we are humans.. not some program written by
humans.. sometime emotions come out and a bad day at work could lead to
telling a newbie to RTFM in an irritated demeanor..

> I'd like to re-iterate that suggestion.  But, I guess since this
> suggestion  wasn't made in a MEETING, it won't be heard.

As for the online presence of aclug, I think everyones suggestions and
meetings are heard... But you must realize the big problems we are trying to
solve now are mainly regarding the meetings of aclug, this is what people
are going to be seeing change in.. the way things are conducted in mailing
lists and stuff are unlikely to change.. So for the time being anyone who
has an suggestion that is likely to change how meetings are held will only
be HEARD if they take the time to attend meetings.. Allot of people have allot
of suggestions but its allot more complicated than the non-attendees
realize.. I know this, I subscribed to this mailing list LONG before I
started attending meetings... Once I showed up everything changed..

Everyone is heard, just not everyone is listened to..

I don't believe anyone wants it so only those who attend have a voice, but all
these new changes to ACLUG that are taking place really only have any effect
to those people who come to meetings, We want to know from the people who
have been to meetings what needs to be done to make the MEETINGS more
organized and in a standard format.. And it would make everyone happy if
these ideas were expressed AT the meetings so its quick and easy to get the
consensus of everyone at the meeting...

Even if you don't come to meetings and you want to make some suggestions on
how meetings are held, you are completely welcome and free to do so.. After
yesterdays meeting I think it was clear to everyone that the best way to
brainstorm and implement these ideas is via the meetings so everyone can get
direct and immideate feedback. Despite this lists recent boost in traffic I
think it was obvious that better ideas and feedback was achieved when we were
all in the same room.. This is why there is going to be another meeting held
Monday and why we are trying to get everyone who has ideas and suggestions
to be there so others can give feedback, opinions, or whatever right there
in person...

Hope all this came out the way I intended it to...

-Ryan

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