[Freeciv] Fascism patch
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I'd like to contribute my thoughts to this discussion too. As my email
address shows, I'm German.
1. German fascism/anti-NAZI paranoia:
It is unique on this planet. But it is not the result of what I've read on
this mailing list. This paranoia doesn't result out of losses of land,
refugees or whatsoever. Everybody who is saying that, just doesn't know what
he is talking about.
The common anti-NAZI behavior of Germans and Germany is more a result of
what we did in WWII to the rest of the world.
I don't hate Hitler's regime because of the loss of land, tragedies or
whatsoever it inflicted on Germany (and my grandfather died as soldier), no
I hate it, because of what it did:
First we have the organized mass murder of Jews, Communinsts, enemies of the
NAZI-regime, handicaped people, social minorities and so on.
Second it used millions of slave workers (mostly from East European
countries), who were according to NAZI ideology people of a lower class and
therefore should be exterminated, but they were in a higher class than those
who were systematically murdered and so they were to be killed by slave
Third. Do you know how many people died in WWII, which Germany begun? Not
only soldiers, but millions of non-combatans. I think Russia only lost about
30 millions of people.
These are only three of the main points, but they show cleary what Germany,
during the NAZI-regime, did to the world.
Sorry, if you can't understand this, but I don't want something like this to
happen again, nowhere on the world and especially not in Germany. Not even
in the smallest scale.
In addition, if there is a case of radical right-wingness, in which for
example people get killed, it is a world news topic. Do you think, any
serious German does want his country to be seen like this in the world?
2. Fascism in general
Fascism is a radical form of nationalism. It is an easy way to mobilize
masses. It is just too attractive, if you get offered someone who is
responsible for your problems. "You lost your job? Well, this foreigner took
it." And in fascism you are offered someone: The others. Let it be foreign
people, foreign countries, foreign organizations (just look at what took
place at the WTO conference in Seattle). And you create something with which
people can identify: their nation, their leader. Fascism is close to a
religion, where the leader becomes the worshipped person. And everybody
knows how religions can mobilize people! You can start with the holy wars
and jump all the way through history directly to Northern Ireland or Israel
(followed the Camp David Summit?). I don't mind fascism in general being
added to freeciv. It is a form of state we had in history and with we should
Perhaps it can be combined with a more restrictive perspective, so as too
make it not too attractive. It would be good, in terms of getting a message
to the players, that it is perhaps impossible for a democratic nation to be
allied witha fascist nation or to restrict some effects on wonders, when you
have a fascist government. I know, that this hasn't happenend this way in
real history (just look at Spain and its NATO membership during a fascist
government). But it could be a way to deal with this delicate situation.
3. NAZI symboles and NAZI stuff
It is true, that NAZI symboles are forbidden in Germany. It is also true,
that our interior intelligence services are monitoring right-wing parties
and organisations. It is true, that freeciv would be illegal in Germany, if
it would use NAZI symboles.
Nevertheless, it is not true, that these kind of things are nulled out and
therefore not accessible and not used to teach or learn about this time in
our history. The reflection about this time is taking place constantly in
Germany. This means in school, in public life, in the medias,... . And I
believe, that most of the German people educated during the time of the
Federal Republic of Germany (I'd personally restrict it to the last 30
years), are more informed about this topic than the same age groups in other
countries. I have personally been to a concentration camp (KZ) and this is a
must for every pupil in Germany. I have read passages of Hitler's "Mein
Kampf" in school. Who of you can say that of himself?
But, besides legal problems, why would I not integrate NAZI symbols in
freeciv. The answer is simple: It is against the idea behind freeciv!
What is the idea behind freeciv? People of different races, colors,
religions, sexes from all over the world are working together to follow an
idea, to build up something. This is something unique and a great
opportunity to get us closer together on earth.
And know you want to destroy it by including something which hurts the
German members of this project deeply?
I personally feel deeply ashamed of everything related to the NAZI regime.
And we are trying to work our history up as good as we can. Germany is
identifying itself with its history and not forgetting in saying: "Well,
this was the past." We are trying very hard to present an image of Germany
to the world, which is that of an open and modern country aware of its past.
But is it necessary for that to always point directly towards it and see us
only in this perspective?
Let me ask you directly: Would you like as American for example to come to
Japan and be asked: "He, you liked the show you got with Hiroshima?"... To
normal people such a question causes embarrasment and you are starting to
explain, why it happened.
But you can't just explain what Germany did. It is of such a magnitude, that
there is no explanation existing. We have to live with it. But, would you
like being asked: "How's Hitler?" (this happened to me in the US).
Perhaps you think about it. Legal matters are one point, but the main point
is, that it is just hurting to Germans.
Some of you might intend that, as I read in previous discussion, for example
about the political leader Hitler. But what do you intend? Do you want to
play freeciv and hope the AI chooses fascism, so that you can go after the
NAZI-bastards (btw: is the AI aware of it?). I don't think so. The chance
that this would happen is not very big. So, someone has to play to choose
fascism as his form of state. Why would you choose and what would you feel,
when you see the NAZI symboles? You have to like it, if you want them to be
integrated. How would you feel? Like Hitler, trying to conquer the whole
world? Do you really want to identify yourself with a regime, that brought
so many grief to earth? If you want that, well then I hope you only have
people of your nationality, race, and so on around you, because otherwise,
you could get problems in living together with them.
For those, who still don't understand: The NAZI symboles are symboles by the
meaning of the word. They represent an idea, they provide a form of
identification with this idea. Do you really want to identify with mass
murder and everything else I listed previously. To exaggerate it: Are you a
4. The addition of PA, Texas, Chile
I would add to this list Bavaria. They always have had their own identity
and their form of nationalism. Perhaps this is obvious, when you know, that
Bavaria is the only federal state of Germany, which hasn't ratified the
German constitution. It sounds unbelievable, but Bavaria has a kind of
special status in Germany, as it hasn't accepted our constitution formally.
5. The "Blitzkrieg" wonder
Could you please explain, what this wonder offers for benefits?
Because I'm wondering what you understand with the term "Blitzkrieg".
I personally don't see a certain military strategy related with this term.
To me the military operations, that were titled as "Blitzkrieg" (which is an
invention by the NAZIs btw) don't seem to have a unique military strategy.
It was more a form of unprepardness of the enemy. Germany was highly
militarized and the military completey mechanized. The opponents in Poland
were riding horses. Sorry, but were is there a military strategy when you
send horses against tanks?
Stalin didn't believe Germany would attack. So Russia's military wasn't
prepared for an attack. If you compare the figures of soldiers lost in the
German attack on Russia, you can see, that Russia only had one thing to
throw against Germany: people. There's an expression for that kind of
defense: cannon fodder (this would have been btw, the main task of the
German Bundeswehr in the case of a Sowjet attack on Germany). The German
attack could only be stopped as Russia had upgraded his military technically
and with people (plus the winter came).
If you take France as example of the "Blitzkrieg", then I must disappoint
you again. There wasn't a real military conflict with France, some "special"
agreements had seen to this before.
So, for what does the "Blitzkrieg" wonder stands? What are its benefits?
If you can correct me in my knowledge of military history and the benefits
of it are useful and in accordance with real history, then I would favorize
the adding of it to the main stream code of freeciv.
Well, this has become a long email. Perhaps it can start a discussion on a
more academic and neutral level, than that what I had to read in some
emails, where for example it stated, that, when you add this and this, I add
Just my thougts.
Microsoft Certified Professional
PGP DSS4096 (0x6574B3BC): BD18 A298 94D9 DC00 B0BB 716B 78C4 3488 6574 B3BC
- [Freeciv] Fascism patch,
Patrick Schmid <=