[Freeciv-Dev] Re: the usual clash of personal style

["Brandon J. Van Every" <vanevery@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

From: John Goerzen [mailto:jgoerzen@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
>
> Given that this is the *FREECIV* development list, how exactly are
> Paul's personal choices regarding non-FreeCiv work relevant
> to anything?

Paul himself made them relevant.  He asked what being a commercial game
developer had to do with anything, and I established what.  Read the
thread again if you don't see the relevance, I'm not going to repeat it.

> > [regarding Paul's lack of respect for me]
> >
> > Which from my end, only says something about the type of
> > person you are
> > vis a vis me.  Probably you are not the kind of person who
> > likes to hear
> > when things suck.  You probably think everyone should
> > always be nice,
>
> You are wrong.

So you can speak for Paul then?  Or you just know Paul really really
well?

> > that nobody should ever get irritated about the way others make
> > decisons.  People should ask and be gracious, they
> > shouldn't yell and
> > force issues.  I have an image of you at a tea party,
> > talking about how
>
> You are wrong here as well.

Same comment as above.

> Really, you have forced few issues, if any,
> other than to claim that nobody here is as worthy a Game
> Designer

Right, nobody here is worthy of the title, insofar as Freeciv
demonstrates.  Would be happy to see your Game Design treatises in other
work and other forums.  Your game design work in Freeciv is moribund.

> as His
> Royal Highness Brandon Van Every, Owner Of Two Domains.

I could care less about being the basis of comparision.  Take
*anybody's* new ideas.  When you have no new ideas whatsoever, you are
not a Game Designer.

> More to the point, you have demonstrated a serious lack of
> understanding
> of how Free Software projects can and do run,

And what point is this?  Has software engineering now become the topic
du jour?

> and your inability to
> learn from atempts people have made to educate you --

Such as yourself?  If I consider a number of things you have said to be
wrong, and I feel I've addressed your points in debate, and you don't
choose to accept those points or to acknowledge that I've processed
yours... this makes me insufficiently or incorrectly educated?  I don't
think so.  I think it means you and I don't have much more to say to
each other.

> and your complete ignorance of a majority of them --

Does "them" have an antecedant?  Or are you just on a roll?

> make me wonder if this lack of
> understanding is feigned for rhetorical purposes.

It isn't.  You're just frothing.

> Then, you use that ignorance as the basis for your attacks on the
> project and its programmers, which by the way, you don't appear to be
> able to identify.

You want me to name the Freeciv project leads?  This is at stake for
you?  Proves / disproves something for you?

> I think that very few people give much consideration to ideas that are
> given in the form "I am an awesome Game Developer, own two
> Domain Names,
> and know many people at the GDC.  You are a sucky technology peon and
> your game sucks and everything about your project is crap.  You should
> really submit to my will in every way, and implement the
> following ideas to the letter."

My comments are more specific than that.  It's clear though that you've
lost emotional control and aren't going to argue straight.

> You have not shown anybody even one line of code, and you use as an
> excuse that you were rebuffed.  BS!  FreeCiv is GPL, and nobody can
> rebuff you from writing good code for it.

I've had private e-mail discussions about the culture clash here.  I'm a
businessman: I evaluate things in terms of time, money, risk, schedules,
and deadlines.  That means nothing gets written until the plan is
viable.  You, it seems, are a typical open source hobbyist.  You think
it's all about handing over completed chunks of code to others.  This is
how you transmit respect and goodwill in your communities.  That sort of
thing is against my intersts.  It costs me money, and it stands a very h
igh chance of being for nothing.

> > Here's my return advice: get
> > what you want out of things.  And ignore / bypass people who can't /
> > won't help you do that.
>
> Excellent.  Does that mean we should all killfile you then?

Please feel free.

However, I think part of you realizes the truth behind a number of
things I say, and you just don't like hearing it.  You know the game
designing isn't any good around here.  You know I haven't actually
insulted anyone's network code, or project organization.  There's a very
simple way to understand where I'm coming from:

- I can't stand people who clone commercial games and never contribute
any game design thought of their own.


Cheers,                         www.indiegamedesign.com
Brandon Van Every               Seattle, WA

20% of the world is real.
80% is gobbledygook we make up inside our own heads.