[Freeciv-Dev] the usual clash of personal style

["Brandon J. Van Every" <vanevery@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

From: Paul Zastoupil [mailto:paul@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> >
> > So how would you stack up Freeciv project achievements compared with
> > those of your day job?
>
> To answer your question, based upon this,
> Freeciv has achieved more for me.  This is the main reason
> why I involve myself in it.

Ok, taking that as a given, do you think maybe you should change your
game job?  So that you're getting a commercial experience at least as
beneficial to you as your Freeciv experience?

> The one consistent thing about the maintainers is
> that they are asked to come on board because they have done things to
> further the project.  You have done nothing but make a lot of noise.

Yes, but by doing so, I've also refined the requirements for a major
project.  If I choose to undertake it, it will be of significant benefit
to a lot of people.  I'm not really interested in "proving" anything to
the Freeciv Gatekeepers, because they haven't proven anything to me
about their ability to incorporate major game design changes.  Nor their
higher level language abilities, for that matter.

And, as we clearly realize by now, I won't ever come on board, even if
for some bizzare and unfathomable reason I was asked.  I'm hardly a NIH
kind of guy, but there isn't enough overlap as to how we'd run projects.
I'll either run a separate project, or I won't.  I'll float ideas here,
you'll ponder them, and you may decide to implement "your own" ideas.
Or you won't.  For instance, whether to ever accept a major rule change.
Or to have an experimental directory.  Having helped plant those seeds,
maybe they'll germinate for you a year from now.  Who knows.

Some people think open source is about "joining the club."  Others think
it's about figuring out what the problems are and what the solutions
need to be.

> To be honest, your lack of manners is offensive to me.

Yes, but you are the one who enjoys Freeciv more than your game job.
I'm enjoying *my* game job just fine.  My job is: talk here until I've
figured out what I can and cannot get from people here, then work on
something fulltime until I have what I want.  I think my job is better
than your job, whether you find my methods offensive or not.

And, let's face it.  You spend umpteen years cloning a commercial game,
don't be surprised if a commercial game developer is offended and gives
that offense back to you.

> You have given me no reason to respect you.

And you've given me...?

> In fact, you've done a lot to remove the
> respect that I generally afford people I don't know.

Which from my end, only says something about the type of person you are
vis a vis me.  Probably you are not the kind of person who likes to hear
when things suck.  You probably think everyone should always be nice,
that nobody should ever get irritated about the way others make
decisons.  People should ask and be gracious, they shouldn't yell and
force issues.  I have an image of you at a tea party, talking about how
it's all about sharing and caring.  Maybe that's just the episode of Red
Dwarf I saw recently.  There was this alien monster who fed off of
negative emotions and kept sucking the vices out of everybody.  Some
people it left as warriors, others it left as wusses, because everyone
had different vices.

> It comes as no
> surprise that you didn't get along with the xconq community.

Of course it is not surprising.  Their Windows build procedures are
lackadaisical, and their C codebase is monolithic.  I never get along
with people whose code makes my life hard.  Least of all Microsoft, and
I can't stand open source developers whose products are *substantially
worse* than Microsoft products.

> Even if
> there is valuable information in the things you have brought up, the
> manner in which they are presented makes the ideas seem repulsive.

To you.  And to others with your kind of interpersonal sensibilities.

> So, while you try to educate us on how "real" game
> development is supposed
> to work, please consider this advice:  Learn how to play well
> with others.

This seems to have gotten you a day job that you don't like as much as
your hobby.  Why should I listen to you?  Here's my return advice: get
what you want out of things.  And ignore / bypass people who can't /
won't help you do that.

> Not even the best developer in the world can get anything done if no
> one will listen to them.

That's a laugh!  Really, I'm laughing really hard at that one.  Have you
*ever* done anything solo before?


Cheers,                         www.indiegamedesign.com
Brandon Van Every               Seattle, WA

20% of the world is real.
80% is gobbledygook we make up inside our own heads.