[Freeciv-Dev] Re: Why client-side AI could be a Bad Thing

[Andrew Mcguinness <cogers@xxxxxxxxx>]

Some good points here.

The number 1 priority is to have a clean interface
between AI code and the rest of the server.  This is
also what the "official" roadmap says.

Having a client AI doesn't mean you have to use a
network - the client can run on the same machine.

The point about new users having to start several
processes is reasonable - we need a script to start a
server and single client on the local machine that a
new user to run to get a "standard civ-II -style
game".


--- Arkadiusz Danilecki <szopen@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
> Hi there!
>       I finally had finished read archives of freeciv-dev
> for 1999/2000.
> I have some new ideas, which i will post in another
> mail, and i saw
> discussion about AIs. 
>       It seems that evverybody agreed that AI should be
> client-side.
> This is nice idea with many pluses, but it alsow has
> some drawbacks, and
> some of them are quite significant, i think.
> 
> 1) AI should cheat. Yes, it should. Unless someone
> create really clever
> AI, it will have no chances without cheating wwith
> opponents. And i think
> it is really hard implement cheating AI without
> overhead if it will be on
> client-side, without access to server data.
> 
> 2) Performance. If they will be client-side and
> communicate via network,
> it will cause some unnecessery overhead. If it will
> be separate process,
> it will cause overhead too. The only way to
> efficiently implement
> client-side AI will be i thinkwith using threads,
> but i am not sure if it
> will be then easy portable to platforms without
> native threads .
> 
> 3)I have experience with newbies to freeciv and i
> see that they are
> sometimes terrfied when they had to type civserver
> and manually create AI.
> Half of them resign from game, saying it is too
> complicated, Imagine what
> will happened if they had to create AIat client
> side? 
> 
> 4) Real-time AI. Hm. If u can make ai thinking in
> real time, it will be
> cool, but i think it could be too difficult. Lets
> imagine AI is coutnig
> which towns are safe. Situation has changedm it
> starts again. Situation
> has changedm it starts again. Etc Etc. I am not sure
> if it will cause That
> AI will be able to move only when all players finish
> move. 
> 
> 5) I don't know what about you, but i hate to wait
> for others players,
> when i finished my turn. With client-side no-real
> time playing through
> network AI it will last even longer. Timeouts for
> AIs? Bue..
> 
> 6) Some of the reasons for moving ai to client side
> can be implemented
> also on server-side AI. Different algorithms for
> different ai? Compare old
> AI with new AI? No problem. sth like  void
> *(algorithm*)(void) and void
> set_ai_alg().
> 
> I understand of course that client-side AI will had
> many pluses : clear
> code, no redundancy of some code etc. But i think
> important thing is
> realise that it will have drawbacks.  
> 
> A.D.Danilecki "Szopen"
> 
>  --
> Zyjemy w parszywych czasach i jedynym pocieszeniem
> jest to,
> ze gdybysmy sie urodzili dwadziescia lat pozniej,
> zylibysmy w 
> jeszcze badziej parszywych
> --------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> 
> 

=====
Andrew McGuinness                Luton, UK
andrew_mcguinness@xxxxxxxxxxx
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