Re: [Freeciv-Dev] How much is missing to make C:CTP clone

[Jules Bean <jules@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Artur Biesiadowski wrote:
> 
> Jules Bean wrote:
> 
> > Could someone perhaps outline how these work, for those of us who've
> > never seen CTP?  Stealth units are pretty straight-forward, but how do
> > the the stacking and trading rules work?
> 
> Ok, lets try.

Thanks.

> 
> TRADE
> 
> Every special resource is worth the same - 10gp (CTP uses greater
> numbers than civ1/2). This is simple. But if you happen to have more
> than one special resource of same type in town you began to monopolize
> the market - second one is worth 20gp (third 30gp etc). Of course it is
> very unlikely that you will have more than 2 of same resourceces in city
> radius. And here comes the caravans. Thanks to them you can create a
> trade route, transporting resource from one city to another. This way
> you can have for example 4 x tabacoo in one city - 100gp of income
> instead of 40.
> Of course it is a bit unrealistic - more common the resource more easy
> is to create a 'monopoly' - but the general idea adds a lot to game -
> for example you might want to conquer specific city for resources that
> are there - not because they are good alone, but because you have a big
> market for them...

That does sound very fun.  Is this the only effect of the extra
resources now?  So they don't give extra trade/production/food in the
way they do in Civ I.?

> Next thing is trade bewteen nations - you can advertize good from your
> city for sale. You can seel it for example for 20gp per turn, but
> somebody else will gain anyway - mutual benefit. Or it can be forced as
> part of peace deal. Etc, etc.

Sounds good.

> Trade routes are represented by lines - actually crossing land and sea.
> If military unit happens to be on such line it can pirate it - breaking
> route (and thus wasting a caravan). So you have to watch if you trade
> routes do not come through enemy territory - a lot of realism feel here
> (plus suicide units jumping in your territory to sabotage supply lines
> and then die..)


Cool.

> Generally I feel that such trade adds a lot to gameplay - with only
> mistake being the fact that sparse resources are not valuable. But it
> can be ignored, or we could just make server to create even number of
> each resource.

I'm sure we can improve on in.  Try something like this:

Each trade item has a base price.  Say, 100gp for tobacco, 500gp for
gems.  Then, the amount you actually earn for each item is multiplied by
(number of units you have)/(number exist in game).  So, if you have 1 of
the 10 tobaccos, you get 100*(1/10) = 10 for each.  If you have 5, you
get 100*(5/10) = 50 for each of them. (so 250 total).

If, as the denominator, you don't use the value (number existing in
game) but instead (number traded in game), then as new resources are
discoverd, the world price effectively goes down.

Or we could be more like colonization, and actually track world prices
on a simplified supply/demand model.

> 
> STACKS
> 
> Up to 9 units per field. You can move them at once. No problem until
> combat occurs. In civ combat is resolved single unit versus single unit
> (and if defenders is not in city (not fortified?) entire defending stack
> is destroyed). In CTP combat screen appears and combat goes as follows:
> Units are put in 3 ranks. There has to be at least two units in rank I
> think. First rank fights with first rank of enemy - no surprise here.
> But in addition to attack/defence units have ranged attack attribute. If
> unit with ranged attacks happens to be in second(also third?) rank it
> shoots BEFORE combat - resolved as normal attack but without possibility
> of being hurt in process.
> So for example you can make a stack of two pikemans and two muskeeters,
> where musketeers shot from second line and the pikeman fights with
> surviving units.
> This adds a new dimension to units - now you can compose armies. For
> example few muskeeters backed up by cannons. Or phalanx with archers in
> second row.
> 
> Side effect of this is that defence is a lot easier in CTP, especially
> at early stages of game. If you will put few phalanx and few archers
> fortified behind city walls, NOTHING will come through them. This makes
> use of special units like clerics/speedy desks a lot more appealing.

I've always found defence to be pretty easy in the early stages of the
game, actually.  I generally find attacking goes in phases:

Phase 1: Archers just have a chance against phalanxes
Phase 2: Everyone (at least, every AI) builds city walls.  Phalanxes
behind city walls are almost invulnerable.  When catapults are
discovered, you have some limited chance.
Phase 3: Ironclads are discovered, and rule the seas.
Phase 4: Riflemen and Coastal Defences tip the balance back to the
defender.
Phase 5: Battleships and air-power rule the day.

The simple act of moving in stacks would certainly be nice, though. 
I've yet to be convinced entirely about the combat (I can think of some
pretty cool ways to enhance combat, if we're moving to a 'separate
combat screen' style - but I think this changes the game fundamentally).

> STEALTH UNITS
> 
> I'm not sure if you really know what this means in CTP - they are not
> only invisible but allow for quite another kind of warfare. For example:
> - cleric (theocracy only) - can convert city (it gives some gold to you
> each turn), or induce unhappines
> - slaver - can capture settlers or citizens from cities and put them
> into yours as slaves (1/2 food and no salary)
> - abolitionist - can free slaves and transport them back to your city
> (not the city from they were captured from :)
> - speedy desk - can block production for one turn in city
> - somebody (ecoranger?) - can disease the city, reducing happines;
> disease has a chance of spreading through trade routes (I REALLY love
> this idea)

Yeah.. I knew about these, because I read some reviews.

Summary: In my view, Trade would be a real enhancement to the game.  The
others, I can take or leave.  What do others think?

Jules