[aclug-L] Re: Voodoo & Linux 'OpenGL' 3D Graphics

[Jonathan Hall <jonhall@xxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Yes, hardware devices are generally easier to support across different
platforms... but aside from that, performance is also much better.

Many software modems ("Winmodems" as they are often called) work in Linux
now.  But they still suck.  They still use the system CPU instead of
offloading the work to a dedicated modem CPU.

Linux supports software RAID--something I don't think Windows even does at
all.  But even so, a hardware RAID controller is still much faster. 

Hardware DVD decoders (and likewise, hardare MPEG encoders) are also faster
and more reliable than software.

Sorta getting back to the original discussion a bit, 3D Graphics cards might
be a good example to use.  With a fast enough processor, you can run Quake 2,
for instance, at 1024x768 and it will work fine with any video card.  If you
invest in a hardware 3D card (such as a Voodoo 2), then the 3D rendering is
offloaded to the card's chip that is specifically designed to do 3D
rendering.  Using a 3D card (even an old 'unfancy' one like a Voodoo 2) you
could probably run Quake 2 at a high resolution on a 200Mhz machine.  To do
the same thing without a 3D card would probably need more like a 1Ghz CP.

(NOTE: I don't think Quake 2 supports 1024x768 with software rendering, so
don't jump on me for using an inaccurage example.  It's just that--an
example :-)

PC processors are, by design, capable of performing any computational task. 
So in some sense, any computational task can be done in 'software' (by the
main CPU and operating system), from digital signal processing to MPEG
encoding/decoding (DVDs for instance) to RAID to random number generation to
encryption etc.

But because PC processors are 'general purpose', they aren't usually GOOD at
doing any of those tasks.  They can do any of them, and in most cases do an
'okay' job.  But they aren't optimized for most tasks.  That's why special
hardware devices (such as MPEG encoders/decoders, 3d graphics cards, hardare
modems, RAID controllers, random number generators, and hardware encryption
devices) can be handy and improve performance for the specific tasks they're
designed for.

(NOTE 2: As mentioned, most PC CPUs can perform the same tasks as
specialized hardware devices but it may take longer.  I do realize that some
tasks can't be done as well at all, in any amount of time, by a general
purpose CPU... random number generation, for instance, requires some form of
entropy which is not typically available in a true form in a PC without a
proper random number generation device.)

Okay... I said a lot and strayed from the topic a bit.  I think I'll go
clean some more now. :-)

-- Jonathan


On Sun, Dec 30, 2001 at 01:13:25PM -0600, Anne McCadden wrote:
> 
> I see your point, I am still a newbie with linux, and work in a M$
> environment.  The software controlled devices help support the M$
> monopoly.  The hardware controlled devices can be used with any OS.  
> 
> A customer, who is also a linux fan bought a new DVD drive and tried to
> use it on the DVD decoder, but it wouldn't work.  Apparently it worked
> great with the software that came with the drive.  He didn't tell us at
> first that he was using the drive on a hardware decoder and with a
> different OS.  Unfortunately the techs I work with were not very
> understanding with his plight, we hadn't come across this situatation
> before and he wasn't upfront and honest with what he was using the drive
> for.  It is good to see a different point of view.  ttyl Anne
> 
> Jonathan Hall wrote:
> > 
> > There have always been software DVD decoders.  Hardware is ALWAYS better.
> > So it's true that it's not 'necessary' to have hardware DVD decoding on the
> > video card... but it's also not 'necessary' to use SCSI instead of IDE, or a
> > hardware modem instead of a software modem, or a hardware RAID controller
> > instead of software RAID... (you get the picture), it is still better.
> > 
> > -- Jonathan
> > 
> > On Sun, Dec 30, 2001 at 12:29:19PM -0600, Anne McCadden wrote:
> > >
> > > Video cards, DVD players and other computer equipment has changed a lot
> > > in the last 2 years.  There are several video cards that have their own
> > > fan, but most of the fans get very noisy and wear out within a year and
> > > then the chip has no cooling what so ever.  Most of the good video card
> > > have an elaborate convoluted heat sink that disapate the heat well and
> > > some have a fan on top of the heat sink, simular to cpu setups, but on a
> > > smaller scale.  It isn't necessary to have DVD hardware decoding in the
> > > video any longer, DVD drives which cost about $10-20 more than a regular
> > > CD-ROM, don't use the hardware decoding, but maybe by software.  Do they
> > > run on linux?  I don't know, that is about the only use that I have for
> > > the windoze machine any more, to play DVD movies and some of the windoze
> > > games, just for play and not to be taken seriously.  The real work is
> > > done by the 5 linux machines in my forever messy office.  ttyl ironrose
> > >
> > > David Carmichael wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Actually I am not for sure. I never really got into fancy 3D
> > > > > video cards much. I am not a gamer. I don't even run X on my
> > > > > Debian box and RedHat works fine with the Matrox card. But I
> > > > > did a quick look at google.com/linux and came across this:
> > > > > http://www.linuxlookup.com/html/guides/3dfx.html it may be
> > > > > of some help, I think linuxgames.com has some linux/3D info,
> > > > > also check out the XFree86.org site. Its not really so much
> > > > > the distro as which version of XFree86 it comes with. Full
> > > > > support "right out of the box" for fancy cards is pretty
> > > > > rare but with some reading and a little work you should be
> > > > > able to get it working.
> > > > >
> > > > > I just looked at linuxgames.com and it talks on the front
> > > > > page about the Voodoo cards.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >  Randy -
> > > >
> > > > I would not call the Voodoo-2 a fancy video card... it is now close to
> > > > three-to-five years old.. some of the newer video cards are what I would
> > > > call fancy! They get so hot and run so fast that they need their own 
> > > > cooling
> > > > fans.. The ATI-Radeon<PCI> that I picked up a few weeks ago even has 
> > > > its own
> > > > cooling fan and the card is basically two years old! The newer versions 
> > > > are
> > > > two head, dual monitor, multi-plane, DVD hardware decoding, ect...
> > > >
> > > > The good side of most of these newer cards are they come with Linux
> > > > 3D/OpenGL drivers (and support) out of the box......
> > > >
> > > > 'Oh' why I started to reply in the first place was.. I have been trying 
> > > > for
> > > > a number of hours to reach the web site 'Linuxlookup' from your link and
> > > > keep getting DNS errors, did a trace route and it has been failing on me
> > > > some place out west...
> > > >
> > > > --David
> > > >
> > > > -- This is the discussion@xxxxxxxxx list.  To unsubscribe,
> > > > visit http://tmp2.complete.org/cgi-bin/listargate-aclug.cgi
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> > 
> > --
> > Useless fact #9: Texas has the lowest number of electoral votes per
> > capita in the U.S. with one electoral vote for every 605,803 people.
> > --
> > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> >   Jonathan Hall  *  jonhall@xxxxxxxxxxxx  *  PGP public key available
> >  Systems Admin, Future Internet Services; Goessel, KS * (620) 367-2487
> >          http://www.futureks.net/  *  PGP Key ID: FE 00 FD 51
> >                   -=  Running Debian GNU/Linux  =-
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--
"So we went to Atari and said, 'Hey, we've got this amazing thing, even
built with some of your parts, and what do you think about funding us? Or
we'll give it to you. We just want to do it. Pay our salary, we'll come work
for you.' And they said, 'No.' So then we went to Hewlett-Packard, and they
said, 'Hey, we don't need you. You haven't got through college yet.'" --
Apple Computer Inc. founder Steve Jobs on attempts to get Atari and H-P
interested in his and Steve Wozniak's personal computer.
--
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  Jonathan Hall  *  jonhall@xxxxxxxxxxxx  *  PGP public key available
 Systems Admin, Future Internet Services; Goessel, KS * (620) 367-2487
         http://www.futureks.net/  *  PGP Key ID: FE 00 FD 51
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