[gopher] Re: This mailing list

[John Goerzen <jgoerzen@xxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Philipp Schafft wrote:
> reflum,
> I vote *against* google because of the following:
> 
> I don't what to depend on Google in any way. I do not like google much
> because of variuos reasons including poltical and privicy things. I also
> don't want to need a google account. Can you 100% be sure that all users
> of the list do not need one for the next ten years?

You're right, of course; nobody can guarantee these things, about Google
Groups, complete.org, or anything else.  People can get in car
accidents, corporate policies can change, sites can go under or be
bought out.

The best way to deal with it in any case is make sure you're able to
switch at any moment.  That means, mainly, having access to your
archives in mbox format and your subscriber list in some sort of
machine-readable format.  Both of which we could get whether we use
Google Groups, Mailman, or something else.

With Google Groups, the mbox archive would be indirect; you can't export
an archive from there, but you *can* from Gmane, and Gmane can easily
archive Google Groups.  With Mailman, it makes mbox archives itself,
though its archive engine pretty much sucks in every other way.

So, let's try to sum things up...

 * This and the OfflineIMAP list are the last two on complete.org that
haven't decided where to go yet.  All the others have decided to go to
Google Groups.

 * As far as preferences go:
   1 person is fine either way (Brian Koontz)
   2 people don't want Google (Cameron Kaiser, simple/Jeff)
   2 people wants us to abolish this group in favor of Usenet

In other words, we don't have a clear preference yet.

 * It probably doesn't make sense for me to maintain an entire Mailman
(or $LISTSERVER_OF_CHOICE) installation on complete.org for only 1 or 2
lists.

 * Mailman hosting is, however, a dime a dozen these days.  I could
easily set up a gopher project on alioth.debian.org,
savannah.nongnu.org, or even use the existing one on SourceForge if we
wanted to have a non-Google option.

 * Regardless of whether we go with Google, Mailman on complete.org,
Mailman elsewhere, etc... I would make certain that I have access to
archives in mbox format and the subscriber list in one way or other so
we could migrate again in the future if needed.

 * gopher@xxxxxxxxxxxx could forward to the posting address of the new
list indefinitely.

> Also I would not like to convert this list to a news group or the like
> simply because it isn't one. I currently prefer the push of lists over
> the pull of groups. you may set up some gateway, but this one more part
> to setup and maintain.

I agree.  Gmane provides an excellent gateway already, for free, so I'd
encourage people that want to use NNTP for this group to use it.  It
comes with none of the drawbacks of Usenet.

-- John