[Freeciv] Re: [Freeciv-Dev] Re: Re: Fascism patch

[Mathias Hasselmann <Mathias.Hasselmann@xxxxxx>]

Tomasz Wegrzanowski wrote:

Tomasz, I guess the problem is already "solved":
Reed will split the patch and will play the nazi nation
privatly.

Your arguments only rise questions about the quality of
your teachers. (I can be sure that I had some more offending
sentences in mind....)

> > > nationalist :
> > >   how many foreigners can get .EU passport per year per EU citizen ?
> > >   compare it with .AU or .CA
> > I know that this is a problem in the EU. But it doesn't mean the EU is
> > nationalistic. If you compare it with the number of how many refugees, ...
> > are accepted in the EU each year (especially in Germany, which for example
> > during the Kosovo war accepted roughly the same number of refugees as all
> > other EU countries together).
> 
> Don't be so proud.

Well this could lead to another off topic discussion....
But why shouldn't we proud of the EU?
And why shouldn't we proud for the lax immigration policies
Germany currently has?

> Kosovars were put into refugee camps for time of war with obligation to go 
> back
> just after war to their destroyed homes. IIRC only Autralia gave them right 
> to stay
> after war.

Stange - Then can you tell me why I see Kosovars so often?

> > The problem of the EU is, that we don't have an immigration policy yet. The
> > countries you mentioned, and I have to add the US to this list, do have had
> > immigration laws for a long time.
> > If you wonder, why this hasn't took place in the EU yet, then please ask
> > yourself for how long we have real peace in Europe. And can you imagine, how
> > difficult a topic like an immigration law is to discuss in Germany (the
> > largest EU member)? If you say only one thing about limiting immigration for
> > one group of people (for example, do it like the US and set maximum numbers
> > for all countries), then you are very close to be viewn as a NAZI in the
> > media and in other countries.
> 
> Why can't just everyone go to .EU if they CAN find a
> job there and passed quarantine ?
> No real reason.
> Pure xenophoby.

<sarcasm>
  Yeah. Why don't we do it that simple? Why do we try to give
  them a chance to find job?
</sarcasm>

> > > socialist :
> > >   In most EU countries, state took over : education, health system,
> > >   roads, alcohol, drugs, agriculture, mining, fishery, weapons,
> > >   cross-border communication, post offices, rail transport,
> > >   radio broadcast, building, energy production, air transport,
> > >   car making, food processing, security, and much much more
> > Education, Roads, Security are some of the main tasks of a nation state.
> > Health care is also a main task of a state, but I have to agree with you, it
> > is especially common in Western Europe (historic reasons. Germany had a
> > public health care system for a very, very long time).
> > All the other things are in most cases privately operated nowadays. Some of
> > the bigger companies, for example in the telecommunication, rail and post
> > sector are not yet completely private, but almost every government in the EU
> > has a plan of how to make them privately owned in the next few years.
> 
> Some will be freed, sure.
> 
> But anyone planning to free agriculture ever ?
> It's free in US, with no problems.

Agriculture in Germany is private. For some reasons it's
subsidize in EU *and* US. And this is good or would you
want to the market prices for your food?

> Or education ?
> It is well known that state education is extremely uneffective
> (I'm not only talking about schools, but about education SYSTEM,
>  with forced many-years education instead of simple examing)

And private education forming special purpose slaves is
much better? Sorry Tomasz you can not really believe this.

> 
> Many, many more comes next.
> 
> > >   In some of EU states, you can't even have shop open after 8 pm,
> > Unfortunately. In Germany it's an old law and discussions are going on to
> > just delete it.
> 
> It will probably be just weakened to 10 pm or so.

You obviously have no clue about what's happening
in Germany currently.

> > >   and most workers are paid by group aggrements.
> > That's called free market, because not the state negotiates the group
> > agreements (then it would be socialistic), but the two parties do that. With
> > parties I mean the representatives of the employers and of the employees.
> > Naturally if the government is the employer it is one of the parties and
> > negotiating with the representatives of the employees...
> >
> > >   And budget is some 40-50% of GNP.
> > Show me an industrialized country where this is different.
> 
> Even US have much less % IIRC.
> Not to mention HongKong, Monaco, and other minor countries.

The US have no social care. You have to pay for you annuity 
yourselft.

Tomasz, the "countries" you mentioned are single town not able
to survive alone.

> --- .signature
>   When Stalin was alive, in some city on deep Siberia, schoolchildren's
>   worksbook's covers werefound by KGB officer to contain swastickas
>   somewhere in colorful pattern. So, all schoolchildren were required to 
> remove
>   covers from their workbooks.
>   Seing any similarities ?
> --- end of .sig

No. Are are you banned from this list?

Ciao,
Mathias
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