[Freeciv] Re: [Freeciv-Dev] Re: Re: Fascism patch

[Tomasz Wegrzanowski <maniek@xxxxxxxx>]

On Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 02:25:42PM +0200, Patrick Schmid wrote:
> > On Sat, Jul 29, 2000 at 10:49:24AM +0200, Martin Horsch wrote:
> > > > Sorry, but Nazi claimed to be left-winged.
> > > > Don't believe SPD propaganda.
> > > 
> > > That's false. Why do you think the first thing they did was burn the
> > > Reichstag and blame the communists for it?
> > 
> > And who was better to blame ?
> > This was most believable version.
> And it is NAZI propaganda, that the communists did it. 

So it was NAZI propaganda.
Could you invent better propaganda ?
Communists were hated by wide range of peolpe.
You were able to blame every terrorist activity to communists,
and people would believe, so why don't do it ?

> > nationalist :
> >   how many foreigners can get .EU passport per year per EU citizen ?
> >   compare it with .AU or .CA
> I know that this is a problem in the EU. But it doesn't mean the EU is
> nationalistic. If you compare it with the number of how many refugees, ...
> are accepted in the EU each year (especially in Germany, which for example
> during the Kosovo war accepted roughly the same number of refugees as all
> other EU countries together).

Don't be so proud.

Kosovars were put into refugee camps for time of war with obligation to go back
just after war to their destroyed homes. IIRC only Autralia gave them right to 
stay
after war.

> The problem of the EU is, that we don't have an immigration policy yet. The
> countries you mentioned, and I have to add the US to this list, do have had
> immigration laws for a long time.
> If you wonder, why this hasn't took place in the EU yet, then please ask
> yourself for how long we have real peace in Europe. And can you imagine, how
> difficult a topic like an immigration law is to discuss in Germany (the
> largest EU member)? If you say only one thing about limiting immigration for
> one group of people (for example, do it like the US and set maximum numbers
> for all countries), then you are very close to be viewn as a NAZI in the
> media and in other countries.

Why can't just everyone go to .EU if they CAN find a job there and passed 
quarantine ?
No real reason.
Pure xenophoby.

> > socialist :
> >   In most EU countries, state took over : education, health system,
> >   roads, alcohol, drugs, agriculture, mining, fishery, weapons,
> >   cross-border communication, post offices, rail transport,
> >   radio broadcast, building, energy production, air transport,
> >   car making, food processing, security, and much much more
> Education, Roads, Security are some of the main tasks of a nation state. 
> Health care is also a main task of a state, but I have to agree with you, it
> is especially common in Western Europe (historic reasons. Germany had a
> public health care system for a very, very long time).
> All the other things are in most cases privately operated nowadays. Some of
> the bigger companies, for example in the telecommunication, rail and post
> sector are not yet completely private, but almost every government in the EU
> has a plan of how to make them privately owned in the next few years.

Some will be freed, sure.

But anyone planning to free agriculture ever ?
It's free in US, with no problems.

Or education ?
It is well known that state education is extremely uneffective
(I'm not only talking about schools, but about education SYSTEM,
 with forced many-years education instead of simple examing)

Many, many more comes next.

> >   In some of EU states, you can't even have shop open after 8 pm,
> Unfortunately. In Germany it's an old law and discussions are going on to
> just delete it.

It will probably be just weakened to 10 pm or so.

> >   and most workers are paid by group aggrements.
> That's called free market, because not the state negotiates the group
> agreements (then it would be socialistic), but the two parties do that. With
> parties I mean the representatives of the employers and of the employees.
> Naturally if the government is the employer it is one of the parties and
> negotiating with the representatives of the employees...
> 
> >   And budget is some 40-50% of GNP.
> Show me an industrialized country where this is different.

Even US have much less % IIRC.
Not to mention HongKong, Monaco, and other minor countries.

Most industrialized countries are ruled by Nazis now.
(remember Nazi = nationalist + socialist)

> > > > So, Germans are so well informed ...
> > > > How much of Germans could say of their heads number of 
> > people died in
> > > > WWII and Holocaust with accuracy +- 10% ???
> Well, how many do you think?

50M and 5M ?

--- .signature
  When Stalin was alive, in some city on deep Siberia, schoolchildren's
  worksbook's covers werefound by KGB officer to contain swastickas
  somewhere in colorful pattern. So, all schoolchildren were required to remove
  covers from their workbooks.
  Seing any similarities ?
--- end of .sig