[Freeciv-Dev] Re: [FreeCiv-Cvs] vas: * Make all windows childs of the toplevel. Th...

[Vasco Alexandre Da Silva Costa <vasc@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

On Fri, 16 May 2003, Raimar Falke wrote:
> On Fri, May 16, 2003 at 07:48:14AM +0100, Vasco Alexandre Da Silva Costa 
> wrote:

> I don't use Windowmaker. And I won't use Windowmaker. I'm pleased with
> Enlightenment.

I am not asking you to change window manager. I use Metacity myself.

> > It is even easier to manage when you have lots of dialogs than ALT-TABing
> > to death to go to window #6.
>
> Yes you have to Alt-Tab a lot if you use all 6 windows. But if you use
> only 3 out of these 6 they will be in the front of the Alt-Tab list.

Well my point was that you only need to press F6 to bring that science
dialog out of minimize. It is not harder to press F6 than Alt-Tab. And F6
always brings the science dialog to the top regardless of order.

I also pointed out there are also window manager keyboard combos for
minimize. Not just window circle.

The paradigm works. I see most Windows users work in this way. My dad for
example does not even know how to use Alt-Tab go figure. He constantly
minimizes and maximizes windows. Lots of users I know do things this way.

I guess Alt-Tab is not obvious to anyone. Documentation on it is not
immediatly available. Some people never even learn it.

I just guess you are used to a different way of doing things.

> While I think this is a kludge there is another problem. The gtk2
> windows doesn't have the correct name set. The name and class is
> "gtk2" and "Gtk2" while for the gtk1 client it is "civclient" and
> "Civclient". Note that _all_ windows (well I looked at city report and
> science dialog) have this name and class in the gtk1 client.

Interesting.

Well I am following the GTK+ docs and unfortunately I do not have kwm
installed anymore. The docs say it should work well with any ICCCM compliant
windowmanager as long as the window title name is unique.

Some dialogs (e.g. the city dialog) do not have unique title names hence I
added a gtk_window_set_role there as suggested by the docs. See:

http://developer.gnome.org/doc/API/2.0/gtk/GtkWindow.html#gtk-window-set-role

The docs also say *not* to change the name and class yourself:

http://developer.gnome.org/doc/API/2.0/gtk/GtkWindow.html#gtk-window-set-wmclass

> > Also in case you did not notice most applications on Windows work the way
> > the GTK+ 2.0 client works now. i.e. app windows are always on top of the
> > root app window. Microsoft Office, Adobe Photoshop, etc.
>
> This doesn't is a prove that this is a good behavior.

I am just pointing out that this way is as valid as Alt-Tab. It even has
several interesting new features like being harder to lose app windows.

Unlike you I usually do not use virtual desktops much and it is common
for me to have terminals, browser windows etc in the same desktop as Freeciv.

This makes tracking windows even more difficult.

> > People get used to it.
>
> It is an open source game. So it can be changed.
>
> Ok my compromise is that we make it an option like "Use Alt/Meta for
> accelerators (GTK only)" which defaults to the current behavior so
> that new users don't get confused.

Ok I will. But it will default to the new behaviour instead.

I could bet only you will use it and even then I doubt for long after you
get used to the new way.

Do you know *anyone* who disables "Use Alt/Meta for accelerators"?
I dropped that nonsensical option for GTK+ 2.0 ages ago and guess what?
No one noticed it. No I will not add it back. :-)

---
Vasco Alexandre da Silva Costa @ Instituto Superior Tecnico, Lisboa