[aclug-L] Re: Linux and Creationism...

["Burt Humburg" <bhumburg@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

>>Would you like to comment on the fossil record?  Do you believe that it
backs up evolution in any way?  IMHO, this is an important part of
scientific study.

I'm inexpert on the fossil record. As a physician, the only bones I deal
with are human. :)

Truthfully, my undergraduate training was in biochemistry and, naturally,
the things I think are "zippy neato cool" about evolution typically are the
molecular evidences and successes. This should not be taken to mean that
there are no "zippy neato cool" evidences from paleontology or geology: just
that I'm inexpert to relate them or haven't necessarily considered them
myself. A good site to fill in the blanks of what I can offer is talkorigins
[http://www.talkorigins.org].

What I can say is that long before molecular biology, the terminology of
comparative anatomy was developed. Divergence, convergence, homology, and
cladistics were all developed using similarities and differences between
animals. Moreover, the same fossils were found in the same kinds or levels
of rock world-wide, and along with radiocarbon (radioisotope in general)
dating, the relative relationships between these fossils could be placed
with absolute dating. Long story short, we pretty much knew what organisms
lived with what others and where long before DNA methods came about.

It is not surprising that DNA evidence did not overturn many of our
convictions. Rather than disproving the contentions being made from the
fossil record, the DNA evidence has wildly substantiated it, exactly as
suspected. In fact, once you collect your data from the lab (DNA analysis,
western blotting, etc.), you use most/many/all of the same tools to figure
out the evolutionary relationships as you would use in fossil analysis.
(Cladistics, etc.)

The only other thing I will mention is what has already been briefly
covered. The land-mammal -> whale transition was a remarkable feather in the
cap of paleontologists. They saw animals that were similar to whales in rock
formations near the Indus valley. They focused their search using
Paleontological tools and were able to amass a large collection of
"transitional forms" (no such thing really; all animals that have offspring
can be considered transitional forms) to whales.

The web is replete with resources on this topic. Talkorigins has its
contributions, which can be found by a look at the index or search function.
(FYI: "whale" in the literature might be "cetacean.") The recent PBS special
also featured whale evolution as a major portion of its evidence and putting
"whale" into the website's [http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution] search engine
yielded several hits that look promising. (Some are video! :) )

I'm also copying a portion of a document that my associate in KCFS
distributes to answer questions such as these. BTW, if anyone is interested,
we would always appreciate having new members. http://www.kcfs.org
(Creationism - I should say anti-evolutionary creationism to distinguish it
from my own - is not dead. Ohio is currently feeling the brunt of things
right now. Nevertheless, we are active in that state as well and would
benefit from any support people would be willing to offer.)

BCH



Transitional Forms in the Vertebrate Fossil Record

It is commonly argued by anti-evolutionary critics that the major taxonomic
groups of living things remained clearly distinct entities throughout their
history, and were as distinct from each other at their first appearance as
they are today. There is a clear interest in showing the history of life as
discontinuous, and any suggestion of transition in the fossil record is met
with great skepticism.

However, numerous examples exist of vertebrate fossil species that are
intermediate in their skeletal features between two different recognized
higher taxa. During the time of origin of a new higher taxon (genus. family,
order, class, etc), there may be many described transitional species
representing many lines of descent. When looking backward through time using
the fossil record, we see that representatives of different higher-level
taxa become more "primitive", that is have fewer specialized characters, and
appear more like the primitive members of other closely related taxa. The
more complete the fossil record of the origin and early radiation of higher
taxa the more similar the transitional species. It is usually very difficult
if not impossible to determine which, if any, of the known specimens
actually lay on the line of descent directly ancestral to the new taxon. For
this reason, taxonomists commonly have difficulty defining higher taxa, and
assigning transitional fossil species to one or another taxon.

Invertebrate-Vertebrate Fossil Transition

Chen, J-Y, Huang, D-Y, and Li, C-W, 1999, An early Cambrian craniate-like
chordate: Nature, vol. 402, p.518-522.

Shu, D-G, Luo, H-L, Conway Morris, S., Zhang, X-L, Hu, S-X, Chen, L., Han,
J., Zhu, M., Li, Y., Chen, L-Z, 1999, Lower Cambrian vertebrates from south
China: Nature, vol. 402, p.42-46.

Fish-Ambhibian Transition

Ahlberg, P.E. and Milner, A.R., 1994, The origin and early diversification
of tetrapods: Nature, vol. 358, p.507-514.

Carroll, R.L., 1997, Patterns and Processes of Vertebrate Evolution:
Cambridge Univ. Press, 448p.

Pareisaur-Turtle Transition

Lee, M.S.Y., 1996, Correlated progression and the origin of turtles: Nature,
vol. 379, p.812-815,

Mosasaur-Snake Transition

Caldwell, M.W. and Lee, M.S.Y., 1997, A snake with legs from the marine
Cretaceous of the Middle East: Nature, vol. 386, p.705-709.

Lee, M.S.Y. and Caldwell, M.W., 2000, Adriosaurus and the affinities of
mosasaurs, dolichosaurs, and snakes: Journal of Paleontology, vol. 74,
p.915-937.

Reptile-Mammal Transition

Hopson, J.A., 1994, Synapsid evolution and the radiation of non-eutherian
mammals, IN, D.R. Prothero, R.M. Schoch (eds.), Major Features of Vertebrate
Evolution: Short courses in Paleontology, Number 7, P.202, 206.

Ungulate-Whale Transition

Thewissen, J.G.M., Hussain, S.T., and Arif, M., 1994, Fossil evidence for
the origin of aquatic locomotion in archaeocete whales: Science, vol, 263,
p.210-212.

Gingerich, P.D., Raza, S.M., Arif, M., and Zhou, X., 1994, New whale from
the Eocene of Pakistan and the origin of cetacean swimming: Nature, vol.
368, p.844-847.

Williams, E.M., 1998, Synopsis of the earliest cetaceans. IN, J.G.M.
Thewissen (ed.), the Emergence of Whales: Evolutionary Pattern in the Origin
of Cetacea: Plenum Press, p.17. (This edited volume is a great resource on
the evolution of whales.)

Buchholtz, E.A., 1998, Implication of vertebral morphology for locomotor
evolution in early cetacea. IN, J.G.M. Thewissen (ed.), the Emergence of
Whales: Evolutionary Pattern in the Origin of Cetacea: Plenum Press, p.348.

Padian, K., Angielczyk, K.D., 1999, Are there transitional forms in the
fossil record? IN, P.H.Kelly, J.R. Bryan, and T.A.Hansen (eds.), the
Evolution-Creation controversy II: Perspectives on Science, Religion, and
Geological Education: Paleontological Society Papers, vol. 5, p.66.

Dinosaur-Bird Transition

Ostrum, J.H., 1994, On the origin of birds and of avian flight. IN,
Prothero, D.R., and Schoch, R.M. (eds.), Major Features of Vertebrate
Evolution: short Courses in Paleontology No. 7 (Knoxville Paleontological
Society), p.160-177.

Chiappe, L.M., 1995, The first 85 million years of avian evolution, Nature,
vol.378, p.349-355.

Novas, F.E., and Puerta, P.F., 1997, New evidence concerning avian origins
from the Late Cretaceous of Patagonia, Nature, vol. 387, p.390-392.

Ackerman, J., 1998, Dinosaurs take wing: National Geographic, vol. 194,
no.1, p.74-99.

Padian, K., and Chiappe, L.M., 1998, The origin and early evolution of
birds: Biological Reviews, vol.73, p.1-42.

Ji, Q., Currie, P.J., Norell, M.A., and Ji, S-A, 1998, Two feathered
dinosaurs from northeastern China: Nature, vol.393, p.753-761.

Chen, P-J, Dong, Z-M, and Zhen, S-N, 1998, An exceptionally well-preserved
theropod dinosaur from the Yixian formation of China: Nature, vol.391,
p.147-152.

Xu, X., Tang, Z-L, and Wang, X-L, 1999, A therizinosauroid dinosaur with
integumentary structures from China: Nature, vol.399, p.350-354.

Xu, X., Wang, X-L, Wu, X-C, 1999, A dromaeosaurid dinosaur with a
filamentous integument from the Yixian Formation of China: Nature, vol.401,
p.262-266.

Sereno, P.C., 1999, The evolution of dinosaurs: Science, vol.284,
p.2137-2147.


-- This is the discussion@xxxxxxxxx list.  To unsubscribe,
visit http://www.complete.org/cgi-bin/listargate-aclug.cgi