[Freeciv-Dev] Re: (PR#7021) allies give all their techs for nothing

["raven@xxxxxxxxx" <raven@xxxxxxxxx>]

<URL: http://rt.freeciv.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=7021 >

> <URL: http://rt.freeciv.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=7021 >
>
>> > I'm playing the Nov. 27 Windows version on Windows 2000.
>> >
>> > Allies will always give you all of their techs. You don't
>> > have to give them anything in return.
>>
>> Feature, not bug. They are your allies!
>
> In SMAC and Civ III, allies do not grant techs that allow you to build
> Wonders, unless you offer them something in return that's really really
> worth it to them.  Also, allies keep a running tabulation of your
> contributions to the alliance, i.e. whether you're a value add or baggage.
>  The Freeciv implementation of Unfettered Technological Altruism may not
> be a bug, but it is certainly misfeatured.

I would have to agree with Brandon here, especially since tech level is
such a vital part of the game.  It seems to me that freeciv would be
improved by more moderation in the ways you can zip drastically ahead (or
behind), rather than even more fast passed and hectic tech developement
through trading.

> Does Freeciv allow Joint Victory with your allies?  If it doesn't, or if
> you can select Single Victory Only as an option, then the current
> generosity of allies is even more silly.

As far as I know, there is no joint victory for allies in freeciv, but I
would very very much support having it as an option - allying gives a huge
advantage, there should be a clear disadvantage too.  (Now that I think
about it, I guess this is addressed in the new ranking system on the
pubserver.)

>> > Also, with 1 human and 7 AI players in the game, the speed
>> > at which the AIs acquire techs is suspiciously ridiculous.
>>
>> This is also true for 7 allied human players... if there is a problem
>> here, it is that AIs ally too often, not that they use
>> alliance the way human players do (giving techs).
>
> The tech rate is *way* too fast in Freeciv.  I've had battleships in AD
> 500, and most cities on the board haven't even reached size 8 yet because
> it's so quick.  There is, especially, no point in building libraries as a
> human player, because all you have to do is ally with some AI and they'll
> build all the techs for you way faster than you could.

Yes!  I agree completely.  And yes, I realize there are settings
(researchcost, full/notradesize, etc) which can slow this down, but in my
experience (with 1.14.0 and prior) the AI doesn't handle non-standard
settings very well at all.

Actually, there's one thing I disagree on - "500 AD" doesn't matter, it's
the number of turns and the pase of the game that matters.  In fact, I'd
verymuch like an option to view the number of turns rather than (or as
well as) the "year".  But that's a whole different conversation.  :-)

--Zack