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[freeciv-data] Re: Tech and Ancient Units

[freeciv-data] Re: Tech and Ancient Units

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To: freeciv-data@xxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [freeciv-data] Re: Tech and Ancient Units
From: "Bobby D. Bryant" <bdbryant@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 01:45:46 -0600
Reply-to: freeciv-data@xxxxxxxxxxx

On 2002.05.21 23:57:10 -0600 Thanasis Kinias wrote:
> Starting with the ancient land units, we have:
> Warriors (1/1/1) $10
> Phalanx  (1/2/1) $20, req. Bronze Working
> Horsemen (2/1/2) $20, req. Horseback Riding
> Archers  (3/2/1) $30, req. Warrior Code
> Right from the beginning, I don't see what the connection is between
> the
> phalanx and bronze working.  What makes a phalanx different from
> warriors is not bronze tips to spears, but the level of organization.
> For a phalanx to work, a supply of free men with military training is
> necessary.  That suggests an association with some level of
> government,
> either republic or monarchy (or both).  I would suggest the republic.

Forgive my nit-picking, but you have touched on a subject dear to my 

The phalanx apparently represents the Greek phalanx sensu strictu, and 
while it did involve a certain degree of social order and military 
discipline, the heavy bronze armor was in fact a part of what made the 
thing work.  These guys were human tanks.  IIRC the full kit ran 
something like 60 lbs of bronze.

The Macedonian phalanges were larger, more lightly armed, and armed 
with longer spears, but this was a later evolution of the original 
concept of the dense formation of super-heavy infantrymen.

However, in a more generalized meaning of 'phalanx' your argument for 
social organization (or perhaps tactical innovation instead) would 
work.  But I think the above explains _why_ bronzeworking is the 
original game's prereq for building phalanges.

> The point at which the phalanx becomes a legion is the point at which
> it
> becomes a professional army, as opposed to a body of citizen-warriors.
> Again, it has nothing to do with ironworking.

Similarly, the legion apparently represents the Roman legion sensu 
strictu, and the legion was as incredible a war machine when it was a 
levy under the middle Republic as it was after it became a body of 
full-time professionals under the late Republic and early Empire.  And 
it was basically their discipline, unit organization, and innovative 
tactics that let them smash (almost) anyone they went up against.  
Agreed that the ironworking is irrelevant; I would use a social 
organization such as Republic or else some sort of tactical tech as the 
prereq -- preferably *both*.

> Horsemen requiring Horseback Riding is a no-brainer.  From what I know
> of ancient warfare, however, that comes _after_ charioteers, not
> before.

Yeah, I think you're right.

> And Warrior Code doesn't seem to have any connection to archery.  I
> would suggest that Archery ought to permit Archers.

Yeah, a no-brainer.

>  Warrior Code seems  to be a dead-end anyway.

I don't know about Warrior Code per se, but at some point a tech tree 
is going to have to have some dead-end and/or 'filler' techs for the 
simple purpose of keeping players from getting too many goodies too 

Bobby Bryant
Austin, Texas

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