[aclug-L] Re: CS Degrees (Was: Re: Cool new fan site....hehe)

[Jonathan Hall <jonhall@xxxxxxxxxxxx>]

For many real-world programming applications, I can see where calc would be
of use.

For Unix administration (which really isn't the same as CS), calc is pretty
useless :-)


On Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 11:05:11AM -0500, Jeffrey L. Hansen wrote:
> Actually, I've found several instances where my Calc was vital to the
> solution.  Strange, but true.  I think it depends mostly on the field.
> I'm working in structures testing and design software for embedded
> controllers.  There's a bunch of device level stuff required and I have to
> write things related to velocities and acceleration.  I'm not strong in
> it, by any means, but it was nice to have been exposed to it.
> 
> 
> 
> On Sat, 15 Apr 2000, Carl D Cravens wrote:
> 
> > On 14 Apr 2000, John Goerzen wrote:
> > 
> > > There are things that are taught at school that you do not necessarily
> > > pick up at a job.  Where was the last job that gave you on-the-job
> > > training of how to construct a linked list, a hash table, or a LZW
> > > compression algorithm?  Or told you why you might use shutdown()
> > > instead of close()?  Few do.  These are also non-obvious things that
> > > will not immediately reveal themselves to someone.
> > 
> > Of course, there are lots of things they teach you at school that you
> > won't necessarily ever use on the job.  And I learned linked lists and
> > hash tables from books... *I* taught my *instructor* tricks with linked
> > lists that he'd never considered.  The LZW compression algorithm can be
> > picked up out of a book.  Anything they teach at school you can learn for
> > yourself.  But there's a lot you learn on the job that never comes up at
> > school.  Especially at a school where instructors tell you things like,
> > "tape is rarely used any more," "I got a D in this class the first time I
> > took it," and, "I don't know what you're going to use calculus for in the
> > computer field, but it's a degree requirement and that's why you're here."
> >  
> > > What else do you learn that is of value?  I really enjoyed my
> > > philosophy classes, especially the one on Ethics and Computers.  And
> > > if you are planning on learning THAT on the job, you are sorely
> > > mistaken.  It gives you a broadening of horizons that you will not get
> > > on the job.
> > 
> > This is true.  But I could have taken the "broadening" courses piecemeal
> > and skipped all the BS (and that ain't Bachelor of Science) classes like
> > Calculus.  (Calculus... the stumbling block of my college career.  If I
> > find myself in a job that requires calculus, I'm in the wrong job.  I
> > don't ever plan on using it, yet I was required to take ten hours of
> > it.  I can do math, but I could never make myself get serious about calc
> > because I knew it was entirely pointless.) 
> >  
> > > Does this class help people?  Without question.  The lively
> > > discussions we had in that class were really useful.
> > 
> > Yeah... it was useful in pointing out to me how many of the upcoming
> > generation think that situational ethics is the norm and that there are no
> > absolute truths.  And it brings up lots of ethical questions that have no
> > clear answers.  I don't know if it was really useful to me or not.  But
> > that might have been because I took it at 28 instead of 18. 
> >  
> > > > In some areas, a degree is needed... I want my doctor or dentist to 
> > > > have a
> > > > degree!
> > > 
> > > What is unique about certain areas?  Note that computer programmers
> > > sometimes write programs that people's lives depend on.  Or more
> > > frequently, millions or even billions of dollars ride on.
> > 
> > Doctors can't read a book and experiment in their field at home without
> > risk.  There's no room to practice without knowing what you're doing.  A
> > doctorate in the medical field is a sort of guarantee that the doctor has
> > received a certain amount of training and experience... becoming a medical
> > doctor requires hours and hours of on-the-job, real-life experience before
> > the degree is granted.  I know CS students who managed to get out of
> > college without being able to write a program more complex than Hello
> > World.  A CS degree is no guarantee of competency.  
> >  
> > > CS programs, at least, encourage creataive and unique solutions to
> > > problems.
> > 
> > I never saw this at WSU.  (Unless you count the "unique solution" being
> > the realization that the TA was grading programs with a script and you
> > could hard-code the expected results into a simple program and get an A on
> > the assignment without even understanding the problem. :)
> >  
> > I got my CS degree for one thing... to get me in the door and to be a
> > deciding factor in promotions.  It's a simple fact that a degree makes a
> > difference. 
> > 
> > A degree is important out in the world... it opens doors.  And once you
> > get in that door, you have to be able to pull your own weight.  I don't
> > think the degree alone prepares you for that.  Especially in the systems
> > administration world, which isn't taught at all at WSU. 
> > 
> > --
> > Carl D Cravens (raven@xxxxxxxxxxx)
> > Hey! We're out of wine, women, and song! !@#$*!?% NO MERRIER
> > 
> > 
> > -- This is the discussion@xxxxxxxxx list.  To unsubscribe,
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> > 
> 
> 
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literature was full of examples that said you can't do this." -- Spencer
Silver on the work that led to the unique adhesives for 3-M "Post-It"
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