[webdev] Re: New Aclug Theme

[Tom Hull <thull2@xxxxxxx>]

A couple of general things that are reflected in my comments below, but
should probably be spelled out up front:

  1) Before the designers ran amok, users could control the legibility
     of text by setting their default fonts, and could control line
     width by setting their browser window width. I think these are
     good things, and we should design around them rather than against
     them.

  2) Personally, I like to keep my web browser windows in portrait-style,
     huddled on the left of my screen, and my editing windows on the
     right of the screen, where I can see a web page and write at the
     same time. Too many web designers have gotten the idea that their
     mission in life is to take over the entire screen area, which they
     enforce by using fixed-width graphics. Since the layout engine
     tries to accommodate the minimum element width, when those elements
     are wider than your browser window this either forces you to endure
     horizontal scrolling or to resize your window.

  3) The issue of fonts is also important, because only the user can
     decide which fonts in which sizes are comfortably readable. When
     designers drop the font size to pack more stuff into their layout
     it runs the risk of severely reducing the legibility of the website.
     Mozilla has a nice text zoom feature to compensate for this, but
     IMO a good website design shouldn't have to be compensated for.


Dale W Hodge wrote:
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: webdev-bounce@xxxxxxxxx [mailto:webdev-bounce@xxxxxxxxx]On Behalf
>>Of Tom Hull
> 
> 
> Let me preface this by saying that I initially picked approximately 25
> themes, but the polling system only allows 12 choices so I dropped back to
> 12.  Some of the choices are examples of what can be done, not what we
> should do. The themes with simple colors and no graphics are the easiest to
> customize. Also keep in mind that the whole themeing system will be
> overhauled in the next major revision - 0.725.  While this version is slated
> for release at the end of December, the time that .0722 has spent in QA
> leads me to believe that it will be at least mid January before we see
> 0.725.
> 
> 
> 
>>BEST: medium gray on black, illegible.
> 
> 
> I like the overall look, but would change the font colors to something
> lighter. The current font colors keep the calendar from rendering correctly,
> making font color change a must.
> 
> 
>>BlackMagic: white/yellow on gray; minimal lines for boxing; might
>>be better
>>with colors flipped, but not very attractive in any case.
> 
> 
> A simple theme, easy to modify colors as desired.
> 
> 
>>Easino: ignoring the banner which would have to be replaced, the
>>left-column
>>fade into light center column is fairly handsome, and the darker
>>right column
>>is clearly differentiated w/o a lot of ornamentation. the fixed width is
>>presumably an artifact of the banner.
> 
> 
> Originally my first choice. There are some rendering issues that will need
> to be addressed.
> 
> 
>>ffx69 phpbb2: simple/attractive boxing, lightblue-on-lightgray doesn't
>>provide much contrast; blue-on-blue would have to be changed, probably
>>to lightgray-on-blue; same for orange-on-blue; not bad
> 
> 
> This is the theme that the phpbb2 bulletin board runs as default.
> 
> 
>>LocalFoo: best thing about look is that it gives a wider middle column,
>>but this is only achieved by using illegibly small type; needs bigger
>>fonts; better contrast in right column; can kill the orange trim on
>>the right column. i like the center column with larger type, but
>>everything else needs work.
> 
> 
> Since it uses almost no graphics it should be easy to change colors.
> 
> 
>>MTmodular: raised white slabs on gray background; looks stereotypically
>>postnuke.
> 
> 
> Sterotypically?  Really?  I thought it was a very nice, clean design that
> shouldn't be too difficult to modify colors.  It also has some rendering
> quirks.

The design decision to treat each block as a separate island strikes
me as stereotypically postnuke. That may not be fair (it certainly isn't
necessary), but it's something that they hook for and designers frequently
take advantage of. This is far from the worst example of it (see myphpnuke
below).

Another thing that seems odd to me is that the right column has a wider
fixed width than the left (with the center floating to take up the slack,
which almost guarantees a third width -- in my window it's actually
narrower, whereas it should logically be wider).

>>myphpnuke: like, who would want to read from a website anyway?
> 
> 
> Huh??  I thought it was a rather sharp design.  I would probably change some
> of the colors, though.

The fonts are so small I can barely read a word of it. A lot of space is
wasted in the design, including all of the page margin. The icons are
useless, and the hover is broken. I'm not sure which is the best design,
but if you polled for the worst, this would get my vote.

>>nardoniki-coma: why does this have a fixed width?
> 
> 
> What fixed witdth??  What browser are you using?  It renders correctly on
> both IE and Mozilla. It's another fairly clean design. I would probably
> change colors a bit, though.

It's significantly wider than my browser window; i.e., it has a fixed
width that does not adjust to my browser window width. Without horizontal
scrolling I can only see a tiny sliver of the right column. I suspect
that the fixed width has to do with the 3D effects; there's no real
design reason why it should not be rescalable to a narrower window
width, but the graphics (one 752 pixel wide jpg and 64 gif files) may
not make it easy to change.

I'm using Mozilla.

>>nucleus: another light pastel scheme, with simple boxing; wonder why
>>the middle column sinks down; not terrible.
> 
> 
> Another easy to modify theme. The middle column problem is that it leaves
> space for an admin message even when that message doesn't exist.  I
> dismissed several themes because they wouldn't display admin messages at
> all. We can probably figure out the problem if we select this theme.
> 
> 
>>Somora-Agua: another panel-look thing; i find the inability to fit the
>>text into the trim to be distracting and a bit alarming.
> 
> 
> This theme tends to occasionally hiccup in rendering. It's another pastel
> one that I would bolden the colors a bit.
> 
> 
>>Somara-Platinum-780: another wide one; the shading on the trim bars makes
>>them look unaligned; pretty ugly, really.
> 
> 
> Huh?? This is one of the few fixed witdth themes.  It's rather bland, but
> some people like bland.

It's a mixture between flat and 3D effects, which I think is visually
conflusing and cluttered; also the shading on the 3D effects sometimes
merges into the background (e.g., on the ends of the tube-bars), which
is what makes them look misaligned.

>>Sowelu Blue: too wide, needs work on top, but simple colors and block
>>breaks are reasonable; don't really think that the background and
>>attendant
>>margin loss are worthwhile.
> 
> 
> What do you mean wide?  It's a fixed width theme.  It's very simple. You are
> right that it wastes space on wider monitors, but it always render the
> content the same, you don't have to be concerned about what it will look
> like at various widths.
> 
> 
>>Sowelu Red: same thing in red; i'd go for a darker red, this really
>>bright orangish shade is hard on eyes.
> 
> 
> I agree, a darker red would be more pleasant.
> 
> 
>>None of these do much for me; maybe Easino and ffx69 phpbb2 seem the
>>most promising, although they differ in one important design concept,
>>which is that Easino doesn't demarcate between blocks, whereas ffx69
>>and most of the other samples do. Anything we pick needs work on top,
>>and probably some tuning on colors. If the thing's so themable, why
>>doesn't someone else take a shot at it?
> 
> 
> Yes, they all will require work. The new templating engine in 0.725 will
> make this a lot easier, but in the mean time we need to pick out something
> we can live with in the short term. What we have now is a long way from
> optimum.
> 
> --dwh
> 
> ---
> Dale W Hodge - dwh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Vice Chairman & Secretary - info@xxxxxxxxx
> Air Capital Linux User's Group  (ACLUG)
> ---
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 



-- 
/*
  *  Tom Hull * thull2 at cox.net * http://www.tomhull.com/
  */