[aclug-L] Re: A Modest Proposal

[james l <james@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

On Saturday 09 February 2002 01:01, you wrote:
> At 04:56 PM 2/8/2002 -0600, you wrote:
> >During the meeting Wed. last, it was mentioned that there had been
> > complaints from some readers about the volume of mail pertaining to
> > issues only of interest to members of ACLUG.  These were people who are
> > not able to come to the meetings, and this information was not of
> > interest to them.  I assume they were checking the ACLUG site because
> > they were curious about Linux, or because they considered the site a
> > Linux resource.  I feel that being a "Linux Resource" should be an
> > important part of our contribution to the continued growth of Linux.
> >
> >Because of the above, discussion centered on the idea of a separate list
> > for active, attending members.  Then came the appeals from people not
> > able to attend meetings, but who wished to be part of  our group, and
> > were able to do this vicariously thru the list.  People from ElDorado,
> > KC, Bremen, Hesston come immediately to mind.  My apologies to others
> > whom I did not remember.
>
> I probably failed to clearly state my situation. It is a real effort to get
> to the
> meetings. I am the one in El Dorado. I used to come pretty frequently. I
> haven't so much lately because the return on the effort involved hasn't
> been sufficient to warrant that effort. I would love it if the meetings
> were to become a greater resource than the last one I attended. I'd be
> there a lot more then.
>
> The one thing I would like to avoid is not being able to contribute to the
> process of improvement. Even if it is only via input on the lists. I have a
> self interest in seeing thing improve with the meetings.
>
> >One thing legitimizing this exclusive list has been voting.  And it seems
> >right that those at the actual meetings should be the ones to vote on
> > things that affect them and the group.  So I would propose the following:
> >
> >--Keep the LINUX and LINUX HELP lists readable by anyone in the world who
> >wants to use this resource.
> >
> >--Have a LOCAL GROUP list that is open to anyone, anywhere, who is
> > interested in what we are doing.  People would have to sign up for this -
> > understanding that this list is for everyone who wishes us well, and this
> > list would be used to DISCUSS things pertaining to local meetings.
>
> James, this is what I was hoping to see develop myself. By allowing those
> of us who could/would come to meetings, if only occasionally, to remain
> engaged in
> the process, it will increase the likelihood of our attending. It would
> also allow for
> the possibility of greater involvement for we irregulars. I would also
> think that
> it would make it possible to tailor meetings to meet the needs of the
> greatest number of participants. This should be the list for all who
> attend, might attend,
> or wish to offer constructive suggestions on meetings/local topics to
> conduct the interaction pertaining to those areas.
>
> >--A VOTE list.  This would be exclusive, limited to members of ACLUG.
>
> I still think this a bad idea. I would think that a group such as ACLUG
> should do its voting on issues at a meeting, not on a private list. I
> believe that is the way
> it has been done in the past. I would also argue that it would be
> beneficial for
> voting members to be able to receive input from non-voting members prior
> to any vote taken. Splitting out a vote list would preclude that
> interaction. Particularly if voting were to be done on a list.
>
> I do, however, agree that there should be some criteria by which it is
> determined
> who is allowed to vote at the meetings. I would suggest, rather than so
> many meetings
> per year/six months, that a total number of meetings be established and
> once a member attends the required number of meetings they would receive
> voting privileges. Or, perhaps require so many meetings and one service to
> the group, be it Saturday Sale duty or helping out at an install fest. It
> could also be established
> that non-attendance for a specified length of time (perhaps a year) would
> disqualify
> a member from voting until they had once again attend the requisite number
> of meetings to regain voting privileges.
>

I think that this is the best proposal I have seen regarding 
voting/non-voting. I have to ask myself: How many things are voted on?

1. Meeting dates. Which generally have been decided at meetings where some 
people haven't been able to attend, and generally, this has been the same day 
where people have had the meeting where it was voted on. This has been one of 
the complaints I have heard. 

2. Officers.

3. Changes to the website/lists. 

4. Right now, changes to aclug.

Anything I am missing?


I basically consider the voting/non-voting thing to be of no real importance, 
let people know that there will be a vote on something, and if they are 
unable to attend, have them email their vote to someplace, say 
votes@xxxxxxxxx a reasonable time before the meeting. If people are worried 
about say 10 newbies voting on something and messing it up, having people 
able to vote via email if they aren't able to come should be perfectly fine, 
because the people on the list generally should know what they are talking 
about. I understand the concern about people doing things online, and that 
then they don't do what they say they will (case in point: newbie session 14? 
people signed up, and 3? showed up, numbers might not be exaclty right, but 
they are close.) until that happens on the voting list, I wouldn't worry 
about it. and if it does, some solutions might be in order (that 
person/people can't vote for say a year or two, or something)

James L.

> In any case, some method of sorting out voting vs non-voting members is
> something that the group should address. Ideally with a spirit of inclusion
> and not one of exclusion.
>
> Great proposal James.
>
> wayne
>
> >--joh
> >
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