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[freeciv-data] Re: [Freeciv-Dev] nation annotations

[freeciv-data] Re: [Freeciv-Dev] nation annotations

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To: esr@xxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: Miguel Farah <miguel@xxxxx>, "Eric S. Raymond" <esr@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, freeciv-data@xxxxxxxxxxx, freeciv-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [freeciv-data] Re: [Freeciv-Dev] nation annotations
From: Miguel Farah <miguel@xxxxx>
Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 12:35:13 -0300
Reply-to: freeciv-data@xxxxxxxxxxx

 esr@xxxxxxxxxxx [14/12/2002 12:07] dijo/said:
>On Sat, Dec 14, 2002 at 08:54:42AM -0300, Miguel Farah wrote:
>> This is serious nitpicking from me, but... how do you treat "regional"
>> rulesets (like Catalunya, Bavaria, etc.) that correspond to a specific
>> region but have never been actually independent countries
>Actually, both of them  have been independent countries.  Bavaria until
>1870, I think...I know they were independent in 1848. Catalonia (usual 
>spelling in English) was independent in medieval times.
>I've tagged them both "Historical".

I can say nothing of Bavaria, but Catalunya's case is quite more
complex: Catalunya started out as eight separate counties (Ausona,
Gerona, Besalú, Conflent, Rosselló, Barcelona and two more I can't
remember now), which eventually fused into a single one, ruled at
Barcelona. Later, the county fused with Aragon, founding the Kingdom of
Aragon, which reconquered Valencia and the Baleares archipelago. The
capital was in Barcelona all the time, BTW.

The Kingdom of Aragon fused in the late fifteenth century with Castilla,
"forming" [this is a simplification] Spain.

(I'm ignoring the italian provinces in order to not complicate matters


*Today's* independentists in Catalunya talk about the "Països Catalans",
which comprise Catalunya (including the Departament of Pirinées
Orientals, lost to France in the early eighteenth century), Valencia and
the Baleares, BUT NOT the Aragon province. BTW, valencians and balearese
(sp?) people generally don't give a rat's ass about this concept.

Looking at the catalan.ruleset file, we can see that:

1) the leaders list is mixed:

leader="Guifré el Pilós", "Ramon Berenguer IV", "Jaume I", "Pere II",
       "Lluis Companys", "Josep Tarradellas"

Guifré el Pilós was Count of Barcelona from the time the counties had
fused but before Aragon joined.

Ramon Berenguer IV was the guy that joined the county and the kingdom
together (by marrying Aragon's king's daughter).

Both Jaume I and Pere II were kings of the "unified" Kingdom of Aragon.

Lluis Companys and Josep Tarradellas were both twentieth century
pro-independence leaders.

2) The city list comprises cities from Catalunya, Valencia and Baleares.

This ruleset describes much more the ideal of the "Països Catalans"
(which, technically, has never existed) than the historical Kingdom of

I think it'd be much better to have a fourth category, called
"regional", and move the catalan.ruleset over there.

Yes, I am aware that every time we discuss stuff like "Is that a real
country?", we are prone to flame wars. 

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